The hallmark of a successful meeting is often determined by the amount and level of participant engagement. You know it instinctively…
....but what can you do practically?
In this episode of #ThoughtLeaderConversations, V2's Roger Courville, CSP sits down with Izzy Gesell, CSP , organizational alchemist and author of Playing Along: Group Learning Activities Borrowed from Improvisation Theater, and Instructional Moments: Facilitating with Applied Improv.
As you listen in to this conversation, you will:
Discover how applied improv combines structured games with reflection to create impactful learning experiences
Explore how games like the "Six-Word Story" foster meaningful connections and build trust among participants
Learn why engagement begins with the event invitation and continues through post-event activities
Understand how structured play reveals authentic behavior, fostering self-awareness without judgment
Hear how the principle of "Yes, and…" encourages acceptance and collaboration in both work and personal contexts
Learn why creativity thrives under constraints and how this principle applies to problem-solving
Discover how including physical, mental, and emotional participation enhances retention and transformation
Understand how improv helps people overcome fear of mistakes by creating a culture of safety and experimentation
Find out how applied improv shifts focus from fast thinking to letting go of judgment to improve spontaneity, and
Explore how improv's somatic nature integrates body and mind for deeper learning and connection.
Learn more about Izzy and his work at https://IzzyG.com.
Series: #ThoughtLeaderConversations
Sponsor: V2, LLC, expert virtual and hybrid event production, www.VirtualVenues.com
Host: Roger Courville, CSP, https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerc/
***
UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Roger Courville, CSP: The hallmark of a successful meeting, or maybe even an event, or maybe even a webinar, is often determined by the amount and level of participant engagement. And now you know it instinctively, but But what can you do about it practically? Well, I'm glad you asked. Hello, and welcome to increasing learner engagement through applied improv.
I'm excited about this topic. My name is Roger Courville, and welcome to another episode of Thought Leader Conversations, sponsored by the crew here at Virtual Venues, where you can instantly scale your virtual and hybrid event production team with a crew that helps you focus on something more strategic than the.
tech and logistics, but we're not here to talk about us and I'm excited to welcome to the virtual stage, Izzy Cassell, a CSP. We'll get back to that. As an original alchemist, Izzy is, uh, helps individuals and organizations transform thinking from commonplace to extraordinary and through his various means of doing that, keynotes, trainings, coaching, facilitated sessions.
He offers imaginative and intuitive and Immediately useful insights and programs skilled at delivering meaningful material in a way that makes participants enjoy their time with him. Izzy is internationally known and is one of the very first to use improv theater concepts as tools for personal and organizational learning.
Author of multiple books, including Playing Along Group Learning Activities Borrowed from Improvisation Theater and Improvisation Theater. Instructional moments facilitating with apply to improv has authored a couple video courses those learning courses on linkedin learning essentials of team building humor in the workplace.
And here's one of my favorite parts. Recognized by his peers has earned the highest earned award from National Speakers Association called the CSB, the Certified Speaking Professional. I know how much work goes into that. Izzy, I'm glad you're here. Welcome and tell us a little more about who you are and what you do.
[00:02:14] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Well, um, uh, who I am is, uh, I, I guess I've been a, a facilitator most of my life, but my path started as a teacher in New York City, where I'm from, special ed teacher. I went on to teach in college and I never really was happy there. Um, what I always wanted to be was a standup comedian. So I actually studied standup comedy in New York.
I became a standup comedian. I, um, as I learned about comedy, What I learned was that humor was, um, predictable in a way that it's structured. So, for example, when you're listening to a joke or you're hearing a story, you know the order is there's the setup, there's the situation, there's the first, eventually there's the punchline, and when the, you as the audience are sort of, okay, I'm following along.
So that was an insight to me about that. Humor is not random. It's structured and the performance of it as a comedian or a performer is how you deliver it to the audience. As I was starting to teach comedy and writing at UMass Amherst, I also was in an improv group, many of them actually. And I saw that improv really brought my body into the situation where the comedy was my head and my sense of humor, but improv is harder for me than comedy.
So what I realized, um, again, I was teaching this class at UMass, the business people about humor in the workplace. And they go, I don't want to be a comedian, but I do want to bring some lightness to my office, some stress management to my team. And they started bringing me in to speak at keynotes. And that's how I became a keynote speaker.
And then they wanted longer programs. I needed engaging activities. And for some reason I started bringing improv games in. I learned how to be a facilitator and boom, that's where all this came together. where I learned that the activities that people use with a guide to reflection on how we play is very helpful to changing the situation.
[00:04:26] Roger Courville, CSP: I'm just gonna say, I love that. I love how our own stories. kind of shape how we connect and communicate and help others connect and communicate. Um, just so you know, your video froze just a little bit, but that's okay. Your audio came through perfectly clearly. And for those of you who are listening and watching, well, You know, you can find more, I find out about, more about izzy@izzyg.com, IZZ y.com.
Uh, because I'm gonna guess you're gonna want to connect with him. I zz
[00:04:59] Izzy Gesell, CSP: YG,
[00:05:01] Roger Courville, CSP: uh, I'm sorry. Yes, I-Z-Z-Y-G, which is just actually a killer website , by the way. What a, that just rolls off the tongue. Izzy g.com. ,
[00:05:11] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Izzy, legit. Yeah, I'm, I'm old. I've had it for a while.
[00:05:17] Roger Courville, CSP: Just so we set the table, what is, in your definition, applied improv?
[00:05:29] Izzy Gesell, CSP: A lot of people have seen improv, and they have reactions to it. Oh, they're funny, they're spontaneous, uh, they're so creative. They come up with things that we can't imagine. And then when I ask people, do you see yourself up there? Many people say, no, I can't. Why not? I don't think fast enough. I'm too afraid to be on stage.
I don't want to make mistakes. Um, they have a skill I don't have. And what I learned from doing comedy and improv is that the skill is essentially a practice. And with improv, uh, the practice is in the, uh, the game over and over again so that you are not thinking about it, but you're just being it.
Applied improv brings facilitation. and improv theater together. So whatever the game is, is followed by a question of what was that like for you? How did you achieve that? What were you thinking about? Was there something surprising? And the secret, Roger, one of the things I've learned from doing this for over 25 years, for adults, the way we play is the way we are in situations of similar emotional content.
For some reason, when we're about how we play, we're honest. Oh yeah, I'm a control freak. Oh yeah, I'm competitive. Yeah, I always want to win. I can't just relax. We do this in a way we wouldn't do this with somebody in a job interview saying, Well, how are you, you know, in playing? Oh, I'm a team player. You know, I'm ready to go at any time.
You say what people want you to say. So as a facilitator, I began to see that when people play, they tell their true story and they're able to discern their own behavior in an objective way and then learn from that. The question basically is, what were your thoughts, feelings, and actions in this particular game?
How did it turn out? Would you do anything differently next time? That's a pretty deep and engaging approach.
[00:07:39] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah. And isn't that the very basis of transformation beginning with self awareness like that?
[00:07:48] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Objective self awareness without judgment. That's why I call it discernment, not, not, not judgment.
[00:07:55] Roger Courville, CSP: So when you take that and apply it to, uh, the variety of ways that that might touch down in a corporate communication environment, right? Online or off meetings, events, you know, individual communications. How does that work to increase engagement?
[00:08:21] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Yeah. When I coach folks, one of the things I realized is that program design and the flow of the session, whether it be a short meeting or a longer meeting, it's not really taken into consideration. It's like, what's the agenda? How much time do we have? Who's got to speak? And we break it up into boxes.
What I'm encouraging people to do is see the entire time, beginning with when you invite people, as a complete entity. So the engagement is how do you get people engaged to feel part of the process rather than just observers? Because I would say, because if you watch an improv game, if you watch an improv team, you play along from your couch or the seat in the theater or on the stage, but without the risk.
That's the secret.
[00:09:22] Roger Courville, CSP: I love that. I'll tell you why. In a virtual, in events, let's separate meetings and events. A meeting we tend to think about as something happening from 1 to 2 p. m. And I show up, I participate or I don't participate, and then I go home. Or move on to the next thing. But the, but an event has a life cycle.
Right. The, uh, the, you know, whether it's in person or online, an event begins with an invitation and registration. And then here's the confirmation email, or here's your instructions about how to participate in the event. And then there's the event. And then there's even after the event, which is a crucial element of, of what, of what, at least to hear.
And for those of us in the hybrid, you know, the virtual events business that we look at, because you're engaging people over multiple points. on a timeline that's different than, uh, than that's different than a, uh, a meeting, quote unquote. And so I appreciate that, that perspective saying, ah, engagement begins before and, and, and continues, but potentially continues after.
So, so, you know, let's just talk to the elephant in the room. Aren't games Broadly speaking, irrelevant or silly in the business world.
[00:11:03] Izzy Gesell, CSP: They are, if they don't have a purpose and an, and a, an examination of relevance. Yeah. But Roger,
people play games in businesses all the time. You know, um, they go, go to a conference and a day is set aside for golf. Or, you know, there, there's the, um, uh, the, the fun activities. Um, the games themselves are pros are tools. The real gift to, um, in, in the event is to get people to participate physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually having fun.
That's the fun part. And at the same time, the, the, the marketer or the person putting on the events. needs to be able to get the people in the, who are participants to see some perspective they're not aware of. That's, you know, get them to go from no, I don't want it to yes, I'll consider it. So it's not necessarily no, I don't want it, yes, I'll take it.
It's no, I don't want it, but I'll listen to some more. Um, so, so, so what I do is like, like I said to you, An example is, um, there's a, uh, uh, an activity called six words story. I'll offer it to you. You can play it. And what I do is I send out in, in, in various forms. If you're coming to a conference, um, or if you're coming to my workshop, I will send out in the pre work, I will ask you to.
Contribute something about yourself that most people don't know, and I want you to do it in exactly six words. Write it down, and when you come to the meeting, just bring it with you. Or, if you're, if we're virtual, the beauty, one of the things you can do with this is this is a great activity. for people who come in at different times.
You know, how frustrating is you come on time and you're waiting for the people and you don't know what to do. So you'll check in your email and stuff like that. So I, you come to my workshop and if you haven't done it already, I'll say, write out something in six words. It's something about you that most people don't under, don't know.
And then when everybody's together, we put it in the chat. And what you get to see in the chat is let's do yours. And then I'll do mine. Roger, tell me something about yourself in exactly six words. Uh,
[00:13:39] Roger Courville, CSP: well, since I haven't done this in advance, we're going to hope this is about six words will die with a book in his hands. Nope, that's not six words, but I could probably figure it out. Kind of like writing a haiku.
[00:13:52] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Make it six words. Make it six words. I want you to edit. Change it if you have to.
[00:13:58] Roger Courville, CSP: Okay. Good.
All right. We're, we're on, I'm on the X. All right. And we're, we're on, we're on the spot right now. Live and improv dies with book in his hands. Okay, there's six words.
[00:14:15] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Guys with book in his hand. Six words, yeah. So here, and what happens is in the chat, or in person when people read, read, read it they go, oh, you know, oh, you went to uh, Antarctica, oh, you own a motorcycle, I own a motorcycle too.
Right. I didn't know that about you, we've been working together for five years. I didn't know that about you, I didn't know you liked to read so much. So the engagement, the mentality of the engagement is now people think about it beforehand. So they're engaged. I got to do this for tomorrow. I don't know what to do.
I'm just, Oh, this is eight words, but they want six. So I'll change it. And what I saw in you is something that, that a lot of people do. Everyone seems to do is, It throws you off a little bit because you haven't done it before, and it's the restriction that makes you uncomfortable. And yet, restriction is the seed to creativity.
Hallelujah!
[00:15:21] Roger Courville, CSP: Yes! My friend, you just nailed it, and
That's, that's the power of haiku, so frequently I'm an early bird and my wife gets up a little later and frequently I'll write her a haiku in the morning. I even published a whole book when we got married, published her a whole book of these haiku that I've written for, written for her over the years, but that's the power of haiku, right?
I mean, five syllables, seven syllables, five syllables is, is that, that constraint, and rather interestingly, that drives creativity. And even as you were talking, and I'm going to share an idea and then hit the tennis ball back in your court, I was thinking about the difference between facilitation and presentation.
And because, you know, learning and development or meetings tend to happen in smaller groups where facilitation and that opportunity to ask questions and, uh, facilitate maybe peer to peer interaction is a little different context than say if someone's doing a presentation to a couple hundred people.
And yet you identified something that is really powerful about the transformation of a medium from in person to online. If you gave somebody a little pre work, Hey, write your story in six words, and then, you know, you show up and you type into the chat here's, here is a psychosocial difference that happens because of the transformation of the medium, right?
If I, if I'm training an in person group and I got 20 people in the room and I say to every one of them, introduce yourself, keep yourself limited to one minute and tell me your story. It takes you 20 minutes minimum to get through a set of introductions. Why? Because it can only be sequential, but when you do it online, you could say, type it into chat and now it could be 200 people.
It could be 800 people and it's all simultaneous, meaning you could. Summarize in a couple minutes, what would have otherwise taken you a whole, you know, 20 minutes or more. And that is a really powerful difference that could even be applied in the context of a, of a webinar or a virtual event. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or you do or don't want to do that.
You just perhaps instinctual. Yeah. Because of your experience, you just kind of instinctively. Described something that is an essential element of being self aware as a presenter or facilitator or a communicator.
[00:18:15] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Yeah. And I would ask you, Roger, give me a, let's talk a little bit about your process from your first offering, which you go, Oh, no, no. Because you started from logically and you started with the word you wanted and you finished that sentence. Yeah. And then you, uh, began to see, well, I have this restriction.
So would you share, um, your, your thought process and, and how did you get to, we'll die with a book?
What went through your head and how did you change? I
[00:18:48] Roger Courville, CSP: wondered if you might put me on the spot with some form of an improv kind of thing. You asked me a question. I did not anticipate the question, which is probably part of the beauty of the process. I did not anticipate the question and yet I think, uh, I thought of a phrase that I used on, I don't know, my Facebook profile or something, which, which kind of describes who I am.
I mean, I'm midlife and I'm working, I'm in the thesis phase of my doctorate. I'm continuing to move forward to the very next thing. And interestingly, I'm almost looking beyond my doctorate. And I've, my wife will tell you that I've said this a hundred times in the last week. I'm looking forward to a day when I can read what I want to read as opposed to what I need to read for, for my schooling efforts.
And so we'll die with a book in his hands represents the fact that I have a stack of books that I want to get to that will probably outlive me.
[00:19:54] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Yeah, and that makes sense. My next question would be, okay, we'll die with a book in his hands is eight words The requirement was six words. What did you do to alter it so that it fit within the restriction?
[00:20:08] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah. What did I do? Uh, I don't even know how conscious that was other than thinking of contractions or, or rewording.
Right. Because you gave a, you gave a constraint. And by the way, I'm going to, I'm going to side road here. This is part of what we do when we promo on, on LinkedIn or Twitter or something like that. In fact, even for this session here, I have a title slide that you, if you were looking at the YouTube video.
That you that visual is something where I'm always trying to take the topic and boil it down into something that works on a little visual that works in, uh, in a small thumbnail on YouTube. So anyway, to your point, I was just kind of like on the spot going, Okay, how do I? How do I use contractions? Can I drop a word or two and still, you know, to get to the six words and, and, and away we go.
[00:21:13] Izzy Gesell, CSP: You're creative. This is, this is what, again, so this is a, um, a warmup game. It has certain purposes within the design of the program. In person, I do the same thing. I've done this with hundreds of people. Um, what you do in person is you write it out and you share it with the people at your table. And then maybe, you know, you go on.
What the lesson is for me, is that we think that there's only one way for a solution and we think logically and then we have to work within the restriction and we do that through our self talk. Once you believe you can do it, you figure out a way to do it and that's what you did. You also, one more thing, you were able to let go of the fact that what you said was the only thing that could be said that would deliver the message
and that's creativity.
[00:22:10] Roger Courville, CSP: There was something that you said in kind of your opening explanation or introduction of yourself that caught my attention. You, in passing, mentioned the kind of person who thinks, I don't think on my feet and, you know, I mean, fortunately the good Lord blessed me with figuring out how to like think on my feet in that kind of a context.
But I will also say the reason that caught my attention is because one of my best friends is a highly intelligent guy who is not one of those think on his feet kind of people. He very much takes time to ponder and comes up with brilliant solutions, right? But, but he's not the think on his feet kind of person.
Where and how does what you teach help those who, who don't think of themselves as that think on your feet kind of person?
[00:23:15] Izzy Gesell, CSP: It goes back to the misperceptions of improv. People think improv is about thinking fast and being funny. And really, the reason that improv people seem so fast is not because they think fast, it's that they don't think very much at all. It's the delay in thinking that makes, that slows us up. Oh, something happens.
What am I going to do? What's the consequences? Well, you gotta look around. You start to learn in improv, because you're with a team, you're with a partner, the risk is I will reveal my true self so I'm vulnerable, but whatever I do, someone will back me up. And I don't have to be perfect. And maybe what I say will spark someone else.
So it's, it's not so much about thinking faster, it's about letting go of all the judgments we make before we act. I'm just going
[00:24:10] Roger Courville, CSP: to give a pregnant pause. to let what Izzy just said set in. Did you, Izzy just say that again? That is money. If you're listening right now, listen to what comes out of Izzy's mouth right now as he repeats what he just said.
[00:24:31] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Improv people are not necessarily faster, funnier, or more spontaneous than most of us. They seem that way because they practice. So this, all this work that we're, the applied improv is a practice. But improv people and spontaneous people, people who think on their feet, really, it's about letting go of judgment, and taking a risk about saying whatever comes up.
So you have to be able to be confident and vulnerable, and not try to be perfect, or the best.
[00:25:07] Roger Courville, CSP: Izzy, how does applied improv affect the retention of information? And to be fair, this could be an out of left field kind of question, but when we think about the nature of people, not only remembering what we said or remembering the key point that we were trying to make, but also then maybe experiencing transformation and taking action thereafter, how does applied improv, uh, uh, affect retention of information, uh, to rather, you know, relative to other types of training.
[00:25:48] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Powerful question. Um, one way to look at it is that improv is somatic. You include your body, not just your head. Um, so when I ask you to write it down, there's something that is going to stay there. Also, um, Games are, are, are engaging and we remember being in an engaging situation more than we remember just hearing data.
This is why stories are so important. People understand and remember stories a lot better than they remember data. Because the brain works on cause and effect and stories are simply cause and effect. Once upon a time this happened and then this happened and because of that this happened. And well, we went out there.
Data is just boom, boom, boom, boom. And people have to try to either understand it or not. So the, the retention is the experience, the focused experience plus the reflection back. So you will remember. The next time maybe you do something like that, you go, okay, I have to do this all by only turning left.
You know, I'm gonna, I'm going to try it. You know, I'll see if I don't turn left all the time, I'll start over. But because you, you, you did it and you reflected on it and it was real. The question was, what did you do feel? Um, that's what I think happens
[00:27:21] Roger Courville, CSP: is he, when you get a call from a client with a challenge who finds, you know, you and your message compelling enough to give you a call and go, okay, is Izzy the right person to bring in for a, for training, consulting or, or whatever. What are the things on their heart? What are, what are they running into?
What are the challenges that they're experiencing that they think? You might be able to help them with.
[00:27:55] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Yeah, I appreciate that question. My last job, a couple of days ago, was for the board of a non profit organization, their first meeting. And what they wanted was, they were a contentious group. Um, they wanted, the person who called me wanted them to feel more compatible, bonding. And so when you play the games, even the six words, you know more about each other.
So that's one, one, one aspect. Uh, another is creativity and innovation. How do we get people to take risks about making idea, taking ideas, even though we say, Oh, it's just, it's, it's just, you know, brainstorming, no wrong answers. People don't believe that they're still vulnerable and they're not sure because.
Y'all, you're wrong. So after an hour and at least maybe an hour, an hour and a half, we play three or four games and you begin to see that it's okay to take a risk because you're with a group of people who are taking a risk also. So everybody's in an equal vulnerable place. I also tell people at the beginning of every one of my programs, if you don't want to participate, you don't have to.
I will be asking for some volunteers. Most of the games are playing with two or three other people, but I will have somebody who will print if you don't want to do that, that's fine. And when I asked for a volunteer, I will stand there. If no one volunteers, I will stand there and I will be comfortable.
And eventually somebody will come up.
[00:29:32] Roger Courville, CSP: Right.
[00:29:33] Izzy Gesell, CSP: The group I did last, last, this, the last one was, was a human resource group. And I asked the person who came up, why'd you come up? She says, I felt bad for you.
[00:29:43] Roger Courville, CSP: I love that.
[00:29:48] Izzy Gesell, CSP: And what I did not ask her was what makes you think I needed help?
[00:29:55] Roger Courville, CSP: What do you think you, she would have said?
[00:30:00] Izzy Gesell, CSP: What, what eventually if the conversation would have turned around that she would recognize that it was her discomfort, she was going to say, not mine. I, I, I, I purposely relaxed. I've done this 500 times. I know somebody's going to come up. I'll stand it because I know someone will feel uncomfortable enough to do that.
[00:30:20] Roger Courville, CSP: Right? So that's
[00:30:23] Izzy Gesell, CSP: what I think. That's the applied improv in example,
[00:30:27] Roger Courville, CSP: you know, uh, just because my background was saying, how do we adapt communication to the virtual environment? I've done the same thing and interestingly, uh, that same level of discomfort. is almost amplified when it's online because we're so used to digital media talking and making noise at us incessantly, continually that just a few moments of silence feels really weird.
And that's a, that's an effective technique. Online or off. I want to dig in a little. I can tell you
[00:31:08] Izzy Gesell, CSP: a story.
[00:31:09] Roger Courville, CSP: Go for it.
[00:31:12] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Okay. And then, then you could dig in, uh, about silence and applied improv. Oh, I'm at a conference. There's round tables. The game we played was called one word story. Everybody has to give one word to build a story that, that has some commonality to it.
There's no time limit to it. It's just say whenever you want. So there's five or six people on this round table. I asked the folks, how was it? Were you successful? One of the people there, a woman raises her hand and says, I was not a good teammate. Oh, why not? I didn't answer fast enough. When my turn came up, well, I said, I purposely made sure that there was no time restriction.
I didn't mention it. She said, I heard you, but I didn't believe you because nothing in my life has no time restriction. And then I could see the light bulb go off in her head. She said, Oh my goodness. Now I see why my direct reports are so nervous. When I come into the room, what she realized. was that she carries a sense of urgency around with her when it's not necessary, and that affects other people.
And that's the way applied improv works. Remember I said, the way you play is the way you are in situations of similar emotional content. That's one of my beliefs. This is an example of that. You see the real you because you're not defended against it because you're just playing a game. But the game is you and if you're brave enough to say, okay, this is how I am in the outside world, you can change.
[00:33:05] Roger Courville, CSP: That, my friend, is a powerful story. And I'm sitting here thinking about, oh, How did I respond when you, when you asked me for my six word story?
[00:33:21] Izzy Gesell, CSP: You, you responded, um, perfectly well for you. It's your way.
[00:33:28] Roger Courville, CSP: I don't expect you to cut me off at the knees, but I know I'm doing some self reflection and some self analysis, perhaps not unlike what she did. Back up a little bit to you. You were sharing and you used the word brainstorming. You were And because as a consultant, I've often worked people through what I consider like a three step process.
This was not mine. This is something I learned somewhere. Brainstorm. Analyze. Synthesize. And I have been the one saying, hey, at the brainstorm level, There's, there's nothing wrong. We, you know, we, we just get all ideas on the table so that we can then analyze them for similarities, commonalities, or, or the kinds of things that lead us to then synthesize what, uh, what we come up with.
But at that brainstorm level, And I, I wanna be careful not to go back and put words in your mouth, but it sounded like, it sounded like the example that you were giving was someone who was too quickly getting from brainstorming to analysis or something beyond that, meaning they were applying some form of judgment.
Uh, is one, am I remembering accurately what you said? And second, how are you working with folks when you're trying to get 'em to just. have unreserved non judgment in that process.
[00:35:00] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, insightful question. One of the things to remember is that you could tell people that, um, any word, anything is okay, but unless you have a culture where people feel able to be spontaneous and vulnerable and make the wrong decision, or if there's somebody in your team who's always saying that we can't do that.
You know, um, then, then, then people are just going to hold back. My approach is to do these kinds of games, talk about them, explain how you feel, like you describe how you feel about saying things off the top of your head. And then, in this case, improv games have no real world negative consequences.
So you get to practice throwing stuff out there and then you say, okay, this is not real, but now we have a real problem to figure out. Let's take what we learned about the game. and just throwing things out. And I have found over and over again, just doing that little warm up exercise with one or two games gives people the culture in which they will keep their mouth shut in judgment when somebody just says something.
They'll go, that's yes and. We can move on to another improv concept called yes and. Yes, you said that, And I don't get it. So let's talk a little bit more about
[00:36:30] Roger Courville, CSP: go a little more deeply into that. Talk to me about. Yes. And, uh, and, and I'll, I'll share, maybe I'll just put a constraint around it. Somebody has just been through one of your training programs, or they heard you deliver a keynote speech or something like that.
Now they get back to the office the next day and they want to implement. What applied improv has, has brought to the table for them. What are they going to experience? Are they going to experience some challenges and how do they take something maybe like yes, and, and put it into action?
[00:37:07] Izzy Gesell, CSP: It's one thing to be with a room full of people who are playing the same game at the same, with the same roles and the same understanding. And I get that. I get this question because yes. is the opposite of yes, but, and but is an emotional reaction with someone who has power over you, or if something is important.
It's not important with your kids or at home, but if you're a boss, you come up and they go, yes, but I don't. All right, so here's, here's the solution. Another improv lesson. Improv is a, what improv is, is, is a mission driven, goal oriented team project, where each person is a various times leader and follower.
And what that means is that when it's your turn, you are always in control.
So if we do the yes and, And nobody else is doing yes, and you're still in control. And here's how it would work in an argument. Somebody comes to you and says, um, this is the way I think we should do it. And you go, yeah, I, I, I hear this is the way you think we should do it. And. Tell me how you got there.
That's one or yeah. Yeah. I, I hear what you're saying. That's, that, that, that's the approach you take and I have a different idea. Let's examine them both. Or if you're a boss, yeah, you think that, and I'm telling you, we can't do it. So what, what the yes is, is not agreement. It's acceptance.
[00:39:01] Roger Courville, CSP: That's a money statement right there. Yes. isn't an agreement, it's acceptance. I love that, and I'll tell you why. Essentially,
[00:39:14] Izzy Gesell, CSP: it's I hear you.
[00:39:14] Roger Courville, CSP: Yes. One of the most critical challenges that each and every one of us has is being heard, or the desire to be, to know and be known, right? In a way. And, uh, interestingly, just a few days ago I interviewed a young gal who was herself part of Gen Z and her kind of speaking and work is on how to work with Gen Z employees in your, in your workforce.
And one of the critical elements that bubbled up in her research and validated in a number of ways was their desire to be heard, right? Not just do I see how what I'm doing relates to vision, mission, purpose of the organization. I want to know that I'm an entry level person. I'm frontline, but, but I want to know I'm making a difference.
But if I, if I open my mouth, am I heard and What you just described of saying, I, you know what, not all of your ideas, I'm going to paraphrase here. Not all of your ideas are going to be right. Not all of them are going to be a, you know, implemented, but I accept you and I recognize your human dignity and integrity.
And thank you for being here because you're valuable to us and we appreciate the fact that you spoke up and and said something. Is a huge, huge part of what we all needed to hear. That
[00:40:49] Izzy Gesell, CSP: acceptance piece of, of, uh, is really important. The other side that we learned from applied improv is that when it's your turn, you have control.
So it could even be somebody keeps arguing with you. It could even be. Yes, I, I understand this is really important to you and you believe that and we have our differences and I don't think this is a good time for us to have this conversation. Let's reschedule. The idea is that when it's your turn, you're always in control.
So you don't have to make them wrong. You just have to decide what works for you.
[00:41:28] Roger Courville, CSP: Two questions here as we wrap up here, Izzy. Thank you so much for dropping some wisdom nuggets on us. A whole bunch of wisdom nuggets. I just got to say, um, let's talk about future trends. Right. The world is evolving. It's as noisy as it's ever been. As corporate training or communication continues to evolve, maybe even especially given that we now have virtual work environments or hybrid work environments.
How do you see the role of applied improv changing or growing?
[00:42:09] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Well, growing is without doubt. I was, uh, last month in Prague for the, uh, International Applied Improvisation Conference. had two, three hundred people because that's what they limited at. Next year, it's going to be in Florida, so people could come. It's in the summer. Um, the movement itself is, is, is booming because it's not only about work, because it's a practice.
It's changes who you are, how you show up. So, so let's go back to the beginning where the volunteer comes up. And I asked the people in the audience, How did you feel when she volunteered? What do you think people say, Roger?
[00:42:56] Roger Courville, CSP: I would imagine they would acknowledge her courage, or something that related to their own, their own reason why they didn't volunteer.
[00:43:05] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Is what they know. Relief. She volunteered, everybody else feels relief. I don't have to go. So, what that tells me, is that how you present yourself in front of other people or in your life, people judge you, and they judge you based not so much on what you do as how what you do makes them feel.
So who you are as you pass through the world impacts people in a way you may not even realize. So to answer the question, the impact of applied improv is that it's not just about work. It changes your, this, it's changed my relationship at home. It's changed my relationship with myself and it's put me more in the present, which is not always easy, but that's the only place to take action is the now.
[00:44:01] Roger Courville, CSP: I was in Prague last October. What a beautiful place.
My wife.
[00:44:10] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Never bombed.
[00:44:11] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah. My wife was, is from. Her heritage is Hungarian. So we did Prague and then we did the cruise down the Danube and then, you know, Vienna and Budapest.
[00:44:23] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Are
[00:44:25] Roger Courville, CSP: you serious? It was wonderful.
[00:44:29] Izzy Gesell, CSP: I did. Yeah. Budapest to Prague.
[00:44:34] Roger Courville, CSP: Wow. We did Prague to Budapest. So, but yeah, what a, what a wonderful, what a wonderful trip that was.
And, uh, just met some blessed people and, and, uh, what a wonderful part of the world. All right, here's my last question for you, Izzy.
[00:44:50] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Yeah.
[00:44:52] Roger Courville, CSP: What question should I have asked you? Okay,
[00:44:54] Izzy Gesell, CSP: Raj.
[00:44:56] Roger Courville, CSP: What question should I have asked you that I haven't?
I think, yeah, I, the question that you could have asked me, but you didn't,
[00:45:17] Izzy Gesell, CSP: was, um, how in this world that we live in, that's very contrarian, um, how, how, how will this work to make people feel. In other words, Um, what can we do to spread this concept outside of particular businesses? Um, and, and, and because it's a global, it's a global perspective.
And my answer is work, play with your family, do it with your, your, your, your religious institutions, volunteer. First of all, learn improv, take some improv. Um, stay connected with, with, with me and I'll give you some activities to, to play and then bring it into your life because that will change who you are in the world, which will change the world.
[00:46:12] Roger Courville, CSP: That is a question that I wouldn't have thought of. And I so appreciate it. Izzyg. com. Thank you so much to Izzy Cassell for just spending a little bit of time with us. Again, if you're still listening, thank you. Number one. Number two. Uh, one of the things that I know. about fellow CSPs is that we come from a really small world of people who see things with regard to abundance.
And so I have no doubt if you have any questions, you don't have to be an immediate client. Just reach out to Izzy. Izzy, uh, is your website the best way to connect with you or LinkedIn, or do you have any other preferences? Well,
[00:47:00] Izzy Gesell, CSP: I think LinkedIn, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, so. um, reach out there and that way we could stay connected easily.
[00:47:10] Roger Courville, CSP: That works. And, uh, for those of you listening and or watching, what I will do is I will put the links to Izzy's website, to his LinkedIn profile, to actually even his LinkedIn learning courses, et cetera. into the blog posts that we embed this video in and or any other LinkedIn posts that we put. I want to thank Izzy Gassell for dropping a whole bunch of wisdom nuggets on us today.
Really appreciate you spending a little time with us Izzy. And uh, and thank you again to our sponsor virtualvenues. com where you can get your virtual and hybrid event production needs met. Thank you, and we will see you on the next episode of Thought Leader Conversations.
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