Waaay back in the day, a company named PlaceWare was a leader in webinar software -- and PlaceWare became Microsoft Live Meeting (which became Microsoft Skype for Business which became Microsoft Teams).
So what's the big deal?
That's where this episode's guest, Mireia Fontbernat, met Roger Courville, CSP when she was responsible for PlaceWare's European marketing. So as a fractional CMO who happens to know webinars and virtual events really well, this dynamic conversation about what organizations should be thinking about when considering launching into or expanding their footprint in Europe.
Along the way we discuss:
Importance of data in building relationships -- and how that may vary depending on audience and market
Maximizing on-demand content, particularly for audiences who are reticent to give you an email address
Why utilizing influencers and analysts may make the most sense for getting started
Personalized communication techniques in multiple modalities
Using AI for qualitative data analysis -- an overlooked opportunity for marketers using webinars!
Benefits of serialized content and how that does -- and doesn't -- work in webinars
Role of trust in multiple contexts
How to approach localization (localisation!) in marketing approaches
Partner collaboration strategies that improve trust and speed to market
The role of risk management in product launches
How to approach human interaction in marketing
And more!
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Series: #ThoughtLeaderConversations
Sponsor: V2, LLC, expert virtual and hybrid event production, www.VirtualVenues.com
Host: Roger Courville, CSP, https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerc/
Keywords: #B2B #B2BMarketing #virtualevents #hybridevents #ai #artificialintelligence #marketingwithwebinars #intelligentengagement #EuropeanMarketing
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UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Roger Courville, CSP: Why focus on EMEA right now, particularly if you're not from or in Europe, Middle East or Africa? How do you start right and avoid the mistakes of others when it comes to marketing? Well, including maybe even how that touches down with webinars and virtual events. Well, I'm glad you asked. Hello and welcome to launching and B2B marketing in European markets.
My name is Roger Courville and welcome to another episode of Thought Leader Conversations, sponsored by the crew here at Virtual Venues, where you can instantly scale your virtual and hybrid event production team. But we're not here to talk about us. And I'm seriously excited about, uh, the conversation that we're going to have today, because Moraya Fompernacht not only helps clients launch in marketing Europe, But because that's how I even met her, uh, a long time ago when she ran the European arm of an organization that we both worked for called Placeware, which became Microsoft Live Meeting, which became Microsoft Skype for Business, which became Microsoft Teams, which is probably what you know today, Moran not only worked for Microsoft and Oracle and other brands that you would know, but more recently she has worked as a interim or fractional CMO for a host of organizations that you may not have heard of as she helps them do exactly what we're going to talk about today, launching and B2B marketing in European markets.
Maria, glad you are here. Tell us a little more about who you are and what you do.
[00:01:26] Mireia Fontbernat: Well, thank you very much for inviting me. And yes, I think you've been giving a very good overview of what I do. And I've been marketing for all my career. I started in Scandinavia, uh, in Stockholm, then I moved to Copenhagen, and then I spent quite a few years in London.
And eventually I moved back to Barcelona, which is where I come from. So in that time, I've been working in marketing, mostly in B2B, a lot in tech, of course, as you mentioned already, Roger. And I think that that's what attracts me most finding the challenges of entering new markets. And I found that many U.
S. companies trying to come to Europe would struggle sometimes when entering the market and before planting a huge operation here, it was good to test the waters and just start doing some marketing here. And that's how it all started. And I've been in multiple industries from webinars as well, unified communications, but even all the way down to co location data centers.
And, um, So, uh, a range of services, B2B mostly, uh, apart from airlines, which was a different one. But I think that that has given me a good exposure to what the do's and don'ts are. can be for a company when entering the, uh, the European marketing from a marketing perspective.
[00:02:40] Roger Courville, CSP: So when I asked you about maybe just an opening or a kickoff question, you threw out something that I loved because it was a bit provocative.
Why focus on a man now? And I guess my deeper question would be, Is that why focus on EMEA period? Is that focusing now because there's a special opportunity? Why focus on EMEA now?
[00:03:03] Mireia Fontbernat: I think it's both. And then again, opportunity happens for some and not for everybody. So there's always risks. And we'll talk about that in a second.
I'm sure it will come up. But. Why focus on EMEA if you're a U. S. company? Usually the joke goes the other way around, right? That the U. S. is a graveyard of European companies going into the U. S. because it's a hard market. And many U. S. companies, they've got a big market in the U. S. Why risk going into EMEA?
Some companies do it globally because they are global companies. You have companies like Nike or companies that sell everywhere in the world. And of course, it's not a big deal or a big exposure. Maybe, uh, as for other smaller companies where the investment, could mean a lot more for them that if it goes wrong, but I think that the why not go to Europe now?
I think that that is the why indeed wouldn't you try now Europe or the Middle East, for example, because there are opportunities as well in Africa, for example, depending on which industry you're in. So, um, for example, for technology companies, uh, e commerce technology, for example, is taking off in Africa very, very quickly with a different approach.
from the US, where in the US, many companies are used to many retailers have been doing e commerce for a while, whereas in Africa, it's a new market, but then it has a different challenge and a different opportunity. So I would say both. Why EMEA when you may be comfortably doing in the US? And why now when there are macroeconomic risks, but they might not apply to you and you might be
[00:04:31] Roger Courville, CSP: I realize there is a lot of nuance. Interestingly, uh, you know, I, I never think of Europeans attempting to come to the U. S. and then finding some kind of difficulty because, well, that's probably because I'm American and I understand those nuances. And, you know, I, Interestingly, uh, having been to Europe a couple times, uh, I can imagine some significant nuance when we even just thinking about Europe, let alone Middle East or Africa.
So question for you, what are some of the most significant differences you've observed between say the U S and European markets?
[00:05:09] Mireia Fontbernat: Well, I think there are many differences that will apply to some industries and not to others. So regulation would be one. If you're in a heavily regulated industry, uh, think of pharma or think of, um, you know, security, et cetera, you might find that you need to adapt and there you, I'm not a lawyer.
And I would advise you to go to a lawyer and ask about those regulations and what the implications are. So that would be a different, um, totally different group. But generally within Europe, you find that different markets react very differently and you have stereotypes. And I think that what I have encountered in many, many times is that when you go even from one European country to the next, you, you have that limitation to your business.
And in many cases it boils down to what is the value that I bring for the companies and finding a use case. I'm a big fan of use cases. And then it's. How does that translate my home market use case? How does that apply in this new market? And some markets are very protective. Some industries and particularly B2B may be more inclined to do business with local suppliers rather than international.
But I don't think that that is usually a stopper, a showstopper at all. I think the difference has come to not just language, but suddenly how you approach the market, the value that you offer for the businesses and how you highlight that. and the fact that you just go and be prepared to combat any opposition, you know, you're not from the German market.
How do I trust you? You will go back to the U. S. and not come ever again here, and you'll leave me alone. So can I find some local partners that add that credibility and that approachable approach? Um, and, and support that is local to them, for instance, or, um, I'm not really sure about American company because you're very far ahead from us.
And, and you really don't understand that our market, um, doesn't do this in this way. They use a different method. They do it manually. They don't do it digitally, et cetera. So those are the things that you need to find. You sometimes look like an aspirin looking for a headache, but I think you need to find what that headache is and then speak to the headache rather than the ingredients of the, of the aspirin, if I may use that brand name.
[00:07:18] Roger Courville, CSP: What a killer analogy. Uh, yeah, find the headache instead of be the aspirin looking for the headache. You and I are both fans of product marketing, right? We both have backgrounds that include that and you use the term use case saying that that was something that you're a fan of. Is there an example of a way that you approach the market, maybe by developing a persona or a use case that that helped you succeed in crossing that that invisible boundary?
[00:07:51] Mireia Fontbernat: I think that there are several examples and what I'll do first is give you a quick summary that I would say first look at the use cases that work in your market and sometimes if it's been a thing that how we have been going through for a long time, we don't realize that that's the use case because we take that as a given.
So analyze why people buy your product. What is the value that they're getting from it? and then see if that need or that value also applies into the new market. So, uh, a typical example would be, uh, um, a client who produces material for, for doctors, just, um, equipment for doctors, and they were expanding into new markets and they found, and they did that very successfully.
through partners as well. And then they discovered the different markets valued them for different reasons. So back home, the home market, they were positioned as a high quality, long lasting equipment with great support and, and some, some technology that you could rely on. It was, it was actually a machinery.
Then they found out that in Germany, they were positioned in a similar way, good quality materials, whereas in other countries, for example, in France, they were seen as. uh, one of the cheapest. So they were competing with price. And in, in certain Eastern European markets, they were seen as far too expensive and not really worth the money.
So they had to, they had a steep hill to, to climb. And they found this through almost by coincidence, by talking to different partners saying, well, why are we selling more? We've got this material there that wouldn't work here. Well, it wouldn't work here. Not because people didn't value that. It's just because the customers or the base that they had acquired.
was focused on a different use case. I want something cheap and cheerful, I'm opening clinics every day and what I need is some material that just, you know, quick, quick to install. I don't care the quality because I'll just swap it in a, in a few years time. I don't care. Um, so, so that use, finding that use case and then finding the personas or the target audience, uh, the, the, the companies that would buy or the doctors that would value that for that use case was key.
They weren't going to change the materials. It could be that in your case, you find that that use case of, um, I I'm going to use cheap and cheerful, something that's not necessarily long lasting, but it's, it's much more price competitive is a thing for you to do. And you want to open a new line for that particular market, if it justifies the cost.
But I would say that in, in these instances, finding what your, True use cases and then check how it applies to the new market was, was key because they found that they had, they were catering for everybody with the same brand, just by coincidence, because partners were doing, they were doing a great job, except that they weren't following the positioning that headquarters was saying, which is, which is one of the risks as we all know.
And I think that many companies might, might be nodding now thinking is I can see that happening or that happened to me.
[00:10:47] Roger Courville, CSP: Just out of curiosity, what, what other mistakes might. an organization make when entering the European market for the first time.
[00:10:59] Mireia Fontbernat: I will say one that I've, I've seen happen very, very firsthand is that this will not work in my market and believe that.
So yes, you need to believe it will not work in my market. Uh, but I would say not just a sales or a reseller. feedback, but the why will not work in your market. Why will it not work? Is it because we've got the wrong target audience? Because the pricing is always wrong. Of course, you could always sell more if you lower the price.
Whether you want to do that or not is a very different matter. I think that it boils down going to your point about product marketing. What Problems that we solve and what is the value that customers in that market plays on that bonus? And if it doesn't match your brand positioning at home and you suddenly have to either change your product or lower the quality or lower The price then you might want to think let's find another use case.
Let's find another solution And and try to position ourselves in that in with that persona, that ICP, right? That ideal customer profile. I know I'm talking a lot B2B, but again, similarly with luxury, um, I've got a few examples, not direct clients of mine, but certainly luxury products. There might be markets where your luxury product, uh, wedding cakes, for example, is not seen as a luxury.
Well, then you need to find an audience that might be a lot smaller in that market that values your wedding cake. as a luxury item is prepared to pay that premium. Uh, as I say, that may, so I think that not taking everything at face value and just scratching the surface a bit more and seeing what my product can really do for you.
And is that a real need in the market? Again, the, the, the headache, right? Looking for the headache and, and, the other way around as well. Just, um, you know, thinking about, well, in the same way that I am trying to impose this in a, in a new market, how can I message differently? Not even the positioning might be the same, but if I say, you know, built in the USA, for example, built in America to sell in the U S that might not give the same connotation in other market, because it might mean that it's really far away.
They don't understand me, et cetera. So you might then have to think, What does it mean for my audience? It means it's good quality. It means it's good service. Then in the other market, talk about the good quality, the good service, and not necessarily the origin per se. So you need to dig a bit and, and transform maybe that message so that it fits the other market.
I would say don't take anything at face value. That's one of the biggest ones. And then the other one, if I may add one there, is the looking at the numbers, at the big numbers. is important, but I've also found myself among my fingers and our company's fingers. We got burned with the fact that we looked at the statistics about how many companies fit this profile because it's the profile that we were selling back home or the company was selling back home.
You know, companies of a certain size with this problem, et cetera, et cetera. And that market, uh, that's particularly the case in the German market. It was where the figures said, yes, it's the perfect market. And then reality meant that. People weren't so open to buying that product from somebody else. They were very attached and very loyal to their brands at home in this particular industry.
So I think that those are the things, the big numbers and, and, and scratch beyond the surface. So don't take everything at face value and, and do a test. You know, just, um, start, find a partner, find a few companies that you can test the product with and say, is this a real issue with you? And, uh, also, you know, go through your gut instinct.
Don't waste too much money on that. Do it as remotely as, as you possibly can without building a practice there, but just try to test what works for you at home. And if it doesn't, get the feedback quickly. to see what use case, what market you should be approaching.
[00:14:43] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah. I remember, uh, well, I'm going to sound old now, but I remember it was recent trout who popularized in the eighties, the idea of positioning, right.
And I, they used to use a lot of car examples and made, made it point to say, well, here's a reason why Toyota comes out with a very different brand with regard to say, Acura, you know, adding, you know, You know, Acura or Lexus as different brands targeting different people within a different context and, and, um, and I'm not the expert across the pond like you are, because I kind of live in a, in my own American bubble, but at the same time, you know, having just been in, um, Hungary and Czech Republic here last fall, I was surprised at how, um, you know, How the positioning of products appeared different for what would seem to be a very similar product, you know, in the States.
And it's part of why I was kind of excited to talk to you about, about this today, because there is that level of nuance. And, and frankly, I think there's that level of nuance even within the United States. I mean, we often think of the United States as, as rather homogenous. And it most certainly is not.
And, and particularly even within a given vertical, I mean, culture and motivations and things like that can be very different even within a given industry vertical, you know, from company to company. And so, you know, I think that's one of the reasons why I like account-based marketing has, has popularized because they've realized there's a certain level of nuance that goes beyond just what's my overall or, or master brand.
Um, I'm just curious when. When it comes to like go to market strategies and you think about the nature of media, clearly, obviously we've, we've got a vested interest in webinars, but webinars isn't the only way to, to reach people or advance a pipeline. I'm just curious when you're doing that, uh, use case or persona based analysis.
Is there a way that you begin to try to evaluate what media use to reach them?
[00:16:57] Mireia Fontbernat: I think yes. Well, that's a very good point. I, what I would usually recommend is to first find what is the message? What is the value? What use cases do you cater for? And then which personas are, which roles even you need to target and then find where those roles are and how you can, you tell them your story or give them your message.
Because in many cases, particularly in, in, in my experiences, when companies are new, launching into new market, be the US company coming into Europe or a European company launching into another country, you find that nobody knows you. And therefore, how do you start? How do you get started? So that is, is quite tricky, I think in itself, right?
So, um, Finding first, what is the motivation? Why would anyone buy you in the first place? And then finding what are the channels to target this, this audience? And not just focusing on one, not thinking that one will break the, you know, everything will work, but suddenly you might hit the jackpot. So you, you need to find Figure out the, the right balance.
And that's, that's an art more than a science, I think, of not putting all your eggs in one basket, but not spreading yourself too thin either. So I think that this is, uh, I'm, I'm just now thinking of an example in particular in, in security, for example, when you target, um, security officers or IT folks, they are notoriously difficult.
to cater for. I've been using, um, a certain marketing automation tool, uh, that popularized inbound marketing. And it seems very easy. You send out a content, good content, and people will click on it and come to it. Right now, um, not everybody wants to receive the content. Not everybody appreciates, uh, gated content.
And this is particularly complicated in B2B because you need that email, you need that contact. And, and thirdly, there's so much content about that, uh, It's, it's very difficult to stand out. Now, add on to that problem. The fact that somebody will never click on your links, then how do you target that audience?
And again, being more focused, trying to find influences, not major influences, but that could be events or media that has the trust. of that audience in particular, and then do smaller events, for example, virtual or even face to face roundtables, et cetera, and do that so that you can get to them. I have found that, um, and this is obviously, um, you'll be glad to hear that webinars and recorded webinars work very well as, as an aid memoir, as a reminder, and also as something to forward onto somebody else.
Look, I've attended this webinar about marketing and this, you know, this is a short version of it. Give it to your CEO, give it to your, uh, board of directors who need to approve the budget, et cetera, with the key values of that. So that could be a piece of paper, it could be a short webinar on audio that highlights those points and then it tells a story through the voice of the person who wrote it.
So there's no lost in translation problem. So I find that that tends to work quite well. And of course, good content, but again, making sure that people come back to you because you want your brand to be known. And when you've got small numbers, typical of B2B, it's very hard to stand out. Um, a trick serialization, right?
Part one, part two, part three of you've done this bit. Now you do the next one. Um, Elements of gamification, very mild, but things like, well, if you've reached this level, this is what you should be reading next. So this is where you should be going next. Let us guide you through that process and then make sure that you have some human interaction.
Let's do a webinar. Let's see how you're doing. Let's do a free assessment, et cetera, whatever that might be. So I think that those are elements that can help you and always think about how much audience you have. Is it B2B? a large audience that you have? or is a very niche one, uh, because the numbers will help you tell where to go.
So, um, yes, and credibility again. So you need a mix of everything, you know, SEO helps you because it adds credibility and trust because you're everywhere and not just on some obscure website that nobody ever managed to get to, for example. So I'm, I'm sure that I, I answered your question in a very roundabout way, but just to summarize first, find out.
what UK, what problem you're solving, who needs that aspirin, if I may use this, the analogy again, and then figure out which channels to use to target that audience. And remembering that it might be through third parties or influencers that they're that help you convey that message.
[00:21:16] Roger Courville, CSP: So let me ask a question that is purposefully difficult.
And I'm going to say first and foremost, purposefully difficult for, for me or us, given that V2's entire business is, is producing webinars. I know from something that you just mentioned and it was something that you talked about, uh, when we chatted on the phone the other day. There are certain audiences that don't like it.
gated content. And in a sense, a webinar is kind of like gated content in as much as you need somebody to register so that you can then send them the link to, you know, to participate. Right. So just out of curiosity, how, how do we approach something like that?
[00:22:03] Mireia Fontbernat: Yes. That's a, I think that that one is accepted and you need to say, well, we'll only send you something to the webinar or make it available.
In, in a, in a on demand, on demand way. But at some point you need to prove that, that you will always get good quality content, quality content here, keep coming back. Uh, and, and that is the tricky part because if you don't have their email, you're going to really struggle. to get, uh, to get their attention, their, their constant attention.
So then you have social media type of, uh, of, uh, networks that you can use for that. You can use third party media, you can use influences, et cetera, but it's, it's difficult. I've, I have had a client who was more interested in awareness because the name wasn't known and it was to get the name out there and good quality content is valued.
And we didn't want to gate that. Precisely for the reason to make it available to everybody because people are reluctant to give their email because they think they're going to be spammed afterwards and sometimes, granted, we keep sending them information because that's what they signed up for. But this was the trick of how do you manage to do that and get their email and the, the approach was to make sure that we had enough champions or fans who would forward our content on and then they would automatically choose the right people to send it to.
I know that Roger is interested in webinars. Let me send him this information. So I'd send you that information knowing that you might actually contact the company or click on it and subscribe. So yes, it's a slow burner and it's difficult, but I think that. At some point you need to accept that you will have to give your email as a user or as a, as a viewer of information, and then unsubscribe later if you don't want it.
But I think there's a happy medium. We went, the pendulum went too far one way of saying, now we've got their email, now we're going to get an email in their inbox every day. And, and now it's gone to the other end where you say, well, actually I cannot get the email. I don't know who they are, but I know my brand is out there.
It might be out there, but to the wrong people who are never going to buy your stuff. So it's, uh, it's, it's difficult. I don't think I have the right answer because it depends a lot on the market. It depends a lot on the product, but suddenly. You need to convince to be convincing enough and trusting enough of people to be trusting you that you won't be emailing them stuff that they don't want.
[00:24:31] Roger Courville, CSP: I think that's the magic word. In fact, as I was thinking, as you were responding, I was thinking, you know, I mean, ultimately it all comes down to trust because we don't make a sale until somebody trusts us at certain, at some level. But what you described was. Where in the process from discovery to, uh, to, uh, evaluation to purchase, and I realize that's a kind of a simplified buyer's journey path that I just described, but where in the process does your market develop trust is, I think, uh, uh, an important question that you just raise and, uh, and I think we all realize we've got to give up our email at some point.
The question is, at what point do I trust you with that? And then what do you do with it after, after I have coughed it up? And, and you're right. I mean, there are some industries where I cough up my email and then it's a daily email, which is kind of crazy. Um, just out of curiosity, let's talk, uh, after you've gotten someone's email, do you have a particular way of, uh, of attempting to assess what someone's tolerance is or desire is with regard to frequency of communication.
[00:25:57] Mireia Fontbernat: I think, um, again, then I'd like to think that when they downloaded something, they might want something else based on what they've read or what I'm trying to sell, right? My promotion of the month is this product, or we're launching something. I might try to, to steer them that way or see if they are interested in that.
But I would say, this is another difference that I've noticed the U. S. versus the, the, um, the The European or EMEA market was the, I think that the value of information, sometimes in Europe, we sign up for things because we're just curious. I guess that you also do that in the U. S., but it's more that I will take a free trial just because I need this for a day.
And then I will forget because I'm never going to use it again. Um, this was an issue with many U. S. companies launching in, in, in Europe. And, and I think that that, does indirectly speak to your question about the tolerance, right? So how much do you give away or how much do you bother somebody until they bother you?
Right. And, and it's, um, the fact that somebody will ask you for more information, they will only do that if they're really desperate. So I think it's making that content available when they need it. And there's lots of tricks to assess if somebody's showing that predisposition in some industries, it might be very, um, Very obvious.
You're in cyber security. You've had an attack and sadly, that's a more frequent, uh, occurrence than we'd like. But that means that you need somebody, you need them now. Then you call somebody, you need the product, you need it now. You don't need it yesterday. You're evaluating an e commerce platform. It's something that you want to do, but you know, it's going to be a lengthy process.
So then the vendor needs to be aware that we need to be aware as, as marketeers as well, that some things require nurturing. Okay. And that's where sales and marketing need to work very close together. There may be some signs. Uh, the other thing, and this is not myself, this is Forrester actually came up with this term about, about the fact that the traditional lead generation approach, the fact that you capture leads and just an email is enough and then you start bombarding them, might not be as sophisticated as we would like to think.
Or they have, they have a different expression for that. But the fact is that four emails, from different people in different companies is nowhere near as valuable as four emails from the same company. And traditionally we haven't valued that that way because it's four emails from one company is like, Oh, well that's one opportunity.
Uh, yes, but it's a much more realistic one opportunity. So looking at those signs, I think that goes to the KPIs. I think we spoke about KPIs before, but what are we looking at? Quality versus quantity, and then how easy is it to convert? Somebody who might be just fishing for information and to impress their boss that they know something about AI or whatever you might be selling, but they're not interested in buying.
Uh, the other extreme is trying to filter so much by demographics. I don't think that happens anymore because we're looking more at intent. Actual job titles, but you might think, well, that person's not, I want to talk to the CEO or the CMO or the CTO and, and this person is a junior one in, in the company.
Oh, but you don't know if the CTO themselves asked them to please find information about this and prepare a summary for me. So it might be more likely that the intern, uh, the trainee is doing the. the purchase or doing the research for a real purchase than somebody else just checking like myself, uh, who might be a more senior title.
So a roundabout answer to your question, but I think it's looking at the signs that, you know, have typically worked for your industry and then learning quickly in a new market when you come to Europe that that might be slightly different. And again, it varies as you mentioned earlier, substantially from industry to industry, more than country by country.
[00:29:33] Roger Courville, CSP: This might not be a fair question, but what are some cultural nuances that marketers should be aware of when crafting messages for different European countries or regions? Is there a way to make that useful without being so general that it's useless?
[00:29:51] Mireia Fontbernat: I think it's, I think it's, The fact that you understand the market might not be credible if you're coming in new.
So finding a local partner that you trust who can convey your message in the right way and hand holding them, just to make sure that the support is there from both sides, goes a long way. You've got the localization, and that goes beyond the language itself. It's understanding the market, understanding the issues and the nuances.
Companies here are facing a new bit of regulation, and this technology really helps you. And then you coming in as the expert in the market. That I think in some markets works very well. The fact that you're the expert from the U. S. and let's face it, in many industries, the U. S. is ahead. We're finding that in Asia, many industries are ahead now, but it's that trust that we have in, in EMEA generally and in Europe, certainly.
for American companies, because you guys know what you're doing, right? It does, it, you have a lot of companies that may not serve the right way or might not have the right product for me, but it's a tried and trusted origin of technology, if you will, origin of, of the, of the businesses. And, and then having that, that don't try too hard to look local, go through a local representative, if you can, if your industry Allows you to do that or find a local partner to, to localize and then yes, be aware of some nuances and this is where it gets difficult, right?
Some messages might sound really great in your language and then when you translate them, they have a completely different connotation and, and cars provide some very good examples with, with brand names even, but just the message might be that it's associated with a funny story or a TV series or whatever it is and you don't know.
or the other way around. Something that worked really well for you has absolutely no, no connection in the market. What I would say is avoid trying to go too local that you lose your essence because you cannot have different, almost different claims in every, in every language, right? Or in every market.
So you need to have that unity. It's, it's a difficult question to answer. I'm sorry, because I don't have that, that, uh, nugget of, you know, that, that golden information that would save you everything there. But Horses for courses, different industries, different approach. I would say have the local knowledge with your international or global expertise and knowledge of What do you do of your industry of your product or service?
Well, I admitted
[00:32:15] Roger Courville, CSP: right up front, that was a difficult question. So what you did, what you did was what you did was admirable. Here's a question for you. You mentioned serializing content, given that you actually worked in the webinar industry at some point. And, uh, I'll just apologize for the knocking since I got a roofer overhead, replacing the roof, given that you have a background in that includes being in the webinar industry.
I'm just curious if now when you work with clients, what they think of, uh, do they think of webinars as one offs or do you ever find receptivity with the idea of serializing a webinar series?
[00:32:58] Mireia Fontbernat: I find that they like the idea in, in theory, then in practice, reality gets in the way and it's difficult to get that going.
Um, also a lot of it goes back to the content planning, right? When we come, we plan the content within what's trending on Google, and I'm exaggerating to make the point, but you need to have what topics do we want to talk about when, and why do we talk about those topics? Which use cases are we referring to?
And then you can start serializing into part one, part two, part three, and you're going to have part 25 maybe of a series. But, I think that that approach would be great. I'm going to tell you a funny story of a client many, many years ago, but I was talking about serialization. So you had the reason to send, you know, you've read part one now read part two, because this is what you've been looking at.
Or you downloaded part two, but you missed part one here. Um, so again, give me an excuse to send you. relevant material because you downloaded one. And they said, Oh, great, we'll do that. And they went and they had three or four eBooks and they stamped on each of one part one, part two, part three, um, completely unrelated one to the other.
But they got the point that I think that that the interest is there, but finding the content and how we base that content. And the fact that we tend to forget that our product is really great and people should love it and get it straight away. Well, people don't. They don't leave and breathe our product and they might have read part one and then forgotten about you, let alone your product and what you said in part one.
So repetition or reiterating the messages is not a negative thing. I'm not saying do part one 20 times. But I'm saying that if you do an ebook that has a topic, you could do a little webinar on that topic and, and pre introduce the, the part two, do some blog posts around that, post it on LinkedIn.
Remember to refresh people's memories about what you were talking in part one, and then go on to part two, and also highlight that you're going to go and say, well, this is the first one. Um, one of the best campaigns that we did was, uh, in a company in the UK as well. coming into Europe was get together with partners and produce content that said, well, you know, we do this part of technology, but the second part would be to do the, uh, uh, you know, the, the payment, this was an e commerce technology, right?
And then the next one would be the ratings and reviews. So we had different partners and then we had different content along the way from different partners. So one that meant that we could. cross pollinate with context, which again, lead generation and demand generation is key and, and nurturing as well.
And we had also more content that we would have ever been to produce ourselves because we, we tapped onto partners. You can see I'm a fan of product marketing and partners, but that is something that works quite well, I find. But the serialization intention is there. Uh, it gets tiring either because we go all the way and everything should be a part of the series one.
or because we don't know what to serialize in the first place.
[00:35:46] Roger Courville, CSP: Interesting. And that actually accords with our experience. I literally just had a conversation yesterday with one of our technology partners. V2 doesn't make any technology. We partner with ON24 and Zoom and etc, etc. And the number one, I said, Hey, what are you, what are you seeing with regard to what, how clients you know, what they need that they aren't are underutilizing.
And she came back to the post event data and that most people see webinars as one offs instead of understanding the trends that unfold when you host a series of webinars. Cause you know, we work with big clients that do a lot of events, but it's a lot of one off events, interestingly enough. So just out of curiosity, When American companies come to Europe, and I realize you're not an attorney, but what are, broadly speaking, some of the legal categories that they should be, be sure to investigate as they're thinking about trying to come to Europe?
[00:36:53] Mireia Fontbernat: Well, in terms of, there are lots of points there. One is about the fact that you come with webinars and try to target different audiences and retarget them again and use the data. So one is, yes, you need to be sure that you know how you're capturing that data and for what purposes. So I would say check with an attorney or with a lawyer, a legal expert in this matter and see what you can do with the data and even where you can host it.
as we all know, that is an issue. And once you have the data, when, how do you detect intent? And I think, well, and also if you're doing ABM or if you have a list of top accounts, you don't have to be very, very sophisticated in that. What are the accounts who are there? And then try to establish what are their interests?
What else can you point them to? Can you already set up a meeting to talk about this particular aspect that they came for? Or do you want to follow up with something? What questions did they ask? If you capture that, that's a goldmine. I think that we forget that people ask questions because they are curious.
And, and that curiosity tells you, or tells you salespeople, what are the next steps to take and what that could interest them. Not just to sell them straight away, but say, Hey, these are the things that I would do. This is how you can help me. We can help you. Uh, and these are the elements that you should consider.
So. having that data one check what you can do with it. Um, and then secondly, start filtering it with, with new eyes and see how you can repurpose content or you have other content or summaries of the event that you can send on to them so that they can also socialize it internally or, Just re read again and come with more questions.
So build a relationship based on that webinar that you started. It's like going to a networking event, and this is years ago, but face to face networking events where you change business cards. That was back in the day. I'm also dating myself. But you get an email the next day, Oh, do you want to buy this?
Well, no, I just talked to you because you happen to be there, you know, eating the same canapes as I was, but, um, and then, well, no, thank you, I'm not interested, and I never talk to you ever again. Well, very candidly, this is not the way to establish a relationship. Maybe, can I help you with something else?
Oh, I came to your event, it was about webinars, and really, it's not my thing. Okay, well, if, um, I can help you with anything else, what were you looking for? And then introduce them to somebody else, one of your partners, if that's not what they were looking for. That goes a long way, because then You've already had a relationship and that person will come back to you as a trusted advisor the day they need what you sell.
So, finding out what you can do with the data and then don't forget about, it's a one off webinar. Even if it's a one off webinar, the data is not one off. You can build relationships with the right people and the right influencers who might recommend you to somebody else. So, Again, a very roundabout answer, but it's just building on that relationship that you already have.
And they've given you information through answers and questions and so on.
[00:39:46] Roger Courville, CSP: That my friend is one of the most underutilized things, right? I mean, September is going to be 25 years in this industry. And if there is one thing that I think is. One of the, if not the most underutilized tactic would be for sales, uh, for marketing to get together with sales and say, we're purposefully going to make sure that we, that we present in a way that instigates questions or responses.
And then we're going to give you this qualitative data to the salesperson. So they can call up, you know, follow up with a warm call instead of just going, I mean, and I know you've seen this, you know, I've seen it more times than I count. Hey, it looks like you attended our webinar last week. Uh, no, I registered, but I didn't attend.
And you know, your nincompoop marketers would easily have that data. You'd figure out that I registered, but I didn't attend. But when you can call up. and say, Hey, uh, you asked a question in the webinar last week. Did your question get answered appropriately? Is there some, some other, tell me a little more about that.
It's, it's a, it's a friendly solution oriented kind of call, as opposed to just, just, uh, you know, having your lead development rep, you know, dial for dollars. And sounds fairly underutilized. One
[00:41:09] Mireia Fontbernat: thing about that is what I have found typically is like, we need something to integrate the data from the webinar onto the, uh, onto our CRM or to our marketing automation tool or might be using.
And I agree that's important to have integrated data. But then I would bounce back immediately and say, how many people attended your webinar? And sometimes you have massive webinars, but sometimes you've got 25 people, 25 people, even if you've only got one sales account manager. to go through the questions and if it's, if, if they can immediately spot whether it's good quality or not good quality and who they need to follow up with, it will take.
What if it takes a day? It, you know, and it wouldn't take a day, it would take an hour. But then they have that data, they can type it into their CRM system if they want to, and they can just pick up the phone and have, or throw an email out and say, Hey, I noticed you asked about this. I, you know, I wanted to send you some more information in case it wasn't, you know, if you needed that more detail, et cetera, and start establishing that relationship and calling people up.
Um, if it's 25 people, if it's 500, et cetera. Or maybe you need a bit more time or a few more sales account managers, but still, um, worth worrying more about the process after how you integrate it afterwards and look at the data while it's fresh and before it becomes outdated, I would say that that's a must.
And again, it all depends on the numbers. Clearly, if you've got thousands, it's very different than if you've got a few dozens, right? But don't, don't let technology integration lackings stop you.
[00:42:37] Roger Courville, CSP: Totally. And you just, and you just inferred about the analysis of that, right? I mean, you can take that qualitative data because you can download all of the answers to every question that somebody answered in a given webinar, and worst case.
Just run it through a word cloud, uh, to create some kind of an, a sense of, uh, is there a repeated theme here? Uh, now with AI, I mean, it's, it's nothing to upload something into chat GPT or something like that. And, and go, what are the essential? things that were, that were being asked about. And now you can ask yourself, did we cover that?
Do we need to have another event on that particular topic? Or is there a theme here that we can somehow generalize to, to, you know, our follow up? And, um, it's the qualitative data is just a killer opportunity that. sadly, is just often overlooked. Back to me,
[00:43:34] Mireia Fontbernat: you said about the word cloud and you can even use that eventually as a, as a, as a, you know, a LinkedIn, um, post or something, you know, here are the topics that, uh, people asked in our webinar.
And you put that there and say, does this resonate with you? And then you get even more dates and people chipping in and say, well, actually my issue is this one is different. And you get, you know, If you don't get new prospects, at least you get new points of view, new data, new ideas or things to cover.
And you can go back to your audience and say, is this a topic that you, you would be interested in? So again, it's building that relationship with relevant content for them at the right time, which, uh, as we were saying before, it's an art of how often you contact them. So the more you can give them quality information and show that you're listening to their problems rather than just trying to sell the better.
Again, no rocket science there, but it's easier said than done.
[00:44:27] Roger Courville, CSP: Back to the issue of trust, though, uh, one of my longtime adages in the virtual events slash webinar industry is mostly because it's a pet peeve of mine, but I also think it's essential to building trust. And it's true in webinars, just like what you just described in social media, which is, am I talking at, or am I talking with, right?
Because the minute it goes from me trying to broadcast to me actually. connecting with you and recognizing that I'm not connecting on LinkedIn. I'm connecting with Maria through LinkedIn, right? Now I'm talking to a human being and, uh, sadly, unfortunately in a digital world, webinars, social media, or, uh, or otherwise, sometimes it's just a little too easy to depersonalize as opposed to recognize that, Hey, I've got a room of 1, 500 people sitting here.
And I'm not just talking at LinkedIn. 500 people. I'm talking with them. And, oh, by the way, it's easier when you're in a virtual event than in an in person event because everybody's got a front row seat and I can connect and interact with each and every individual, um, in a way that sadly is often underutilized as well.
Question about trends. Let's, let's kind of wrap up thinking back to the big picture a little bit. Are there anything that you would identify as emerging trends in the European market that that American marketers should be aware of?
[00:45:57] Mireia Fontbernat: Trends. I think there's, um, there are some trends that are just general.
The fact that people are more careful with spend, which again, translates into companies. And maybe I would say that there's always been a slower motion in Europe as opposed to the US as to let's be more cautious. Let's, let's go slower. It varies. a lot between industries and between countries. I know that's not a trend, but that's a reality that might affect some trends.
I guess that the, the fact that, uh, the, the brand loyalty has become something more of a, in, in terms of B2B. rather than being loyal to a brand is being loyal to an advisor. And that in my experience in the industries I'm experienced with tends to be a lot with partners, distributors, et cetera. Who would you recommend?
And again, going to an example of, of, uh, cybersecurity, right? We were, we were really desperate saying, okay, so how do we communicate with these people? So we asked a few of them saying, how, where do you get your information? Where do you get trust, trusted advice that will come to your events, which of course.
is very flattering, but at the same time limits what you can do because if you're not my customer, you won't come to my events. So how do I reach you? I think that this trusted advisor is becoming more and more important in, in European markets as well. And I really think that there are many, many trends going on, but they vary from industry to industry.
So I think that the purchasing of um, of services and B2B products, particularly SaaS, which is what I have a lot of experience in. It goes through, give me somebody to filter, right? And somebody who I trust. And that's where you have to be very good at selecting the right partners who target your audience and teach them your message and be there handholding them so that they feel comfortable recommending you.
I wouldn't want to recommend you if I didn't know you really well, that you serve my client because it's my client. Um, and then companies need to be aware that they rely on these partners to reach the audience, but it's not a battle. It's not, they're not a bottleneck. They're not blocking you to access the client.
What we need to make it easier is, how do we go to market together? And I've seen a trend, which is specific to e commerce, which is marketplaces. And this has been, a really awful term for many because it seems that you're trying to lower the quality, but when you think about marketplaces as somewhere where the the final user, the client, can come and buy something that has all the elements that you need.
I sell technology, uh, my partner V2 sells some services on that technology, we go to market together and then we have some other partner that does some servicing or or any other insurance or legal advice or whatever it is, so the customer can bundle the product on that marketplace. I'm not saying that you have to physically have a commerce platform with a marketplace, but think of approaching the market with a solution for the customer.
Don't go with multiple suppliers. I, well, it broke, but it's not my part. It's somebody else's just try to be a solution and then going together and, and providing what they need every step on the way, even if it's not you by yourself. providing it is important. So bring your partners with you. Don't expect your partners to just knock on doors.
And then you try to push something through your partner. It's not a sell through, it's actually a sell with. So I think that this is a trend that that I see helping companies or rather than a trend and opportunity for companies to latch on to.
[00:49:26] Roger Courville, CSP: I love, uh, and, I want to be careful not to put words in your mouth, but when you spoke about, uh, something that undergirds a trend where it's, uh, referral based, you know, uh, I'm a big fan of Jay Baer's work and his war, his book utility in particular talked about.
Help, not hype. But one of the things, and this is me extrapolating a little bit from from his book, but one of the things that he pointed out was that with a growth in brands and also a quantity of brands and also with regard to now being enculturated with regard to social media that that oftentimes people's first place to go is Is social media as in, I ask my friends, Hey, what, what, uh, X do you recommend?
Right? Because if I go research X, I might end up with, and I'm not talking about the, the platform formerly known as Twitter. You know, if I go research a product or a product category, I might find 50 or 80 vendors and there's no way I can research all those vendors. Therefore, what do I do? I go ask my friends.
So whether that's on the telephone or on Facebook, I'm asking a question based on And, uh, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but, uh, What you just described sounds like that that is very present in the European market. Is that a fair, fair way?
[00:50:53] Mireia Fontbernat: Yes. And again, thinking about business to business, that might not be social media as you know, do you going to buy an e commerce platform?
You don't necessarily go to social media. You go to your trusted technology distributor and say, Hey, uh, which technology and also analysts, right? Industry analysts will also be good refers or good evaluators of a technology that will give you the pros and the cons of every technology. So you need to be aware of how do we target those, uh, those, influencers in a way.
And by targeting, I don't mean doing a marketing campaign and just bombarding them with stories, but just giving them the facts and making sure that you understand and it's a two way dialogue because the customer might not say, I didn't work out, you were too expensive, et cetera. But somebody like a gardener or a forester will tell you.
you know, our customers tell you, tell us that you are too expensive or that you are, you, you're very flaky in this area, or this is not the right level of service, but they like this a lot. And then they can give you advice as to where to improve or what to focus on and what not to focus on, right? If it's, so I think that those elements become much more important now because of the, the price consciousness of, of people.
And then still people are, are, you know, prepared to pay for things, but you need to prove the ROI and people are becoming very risk averse. I hate to have negative trends, I think at the moment, but, um, that that risk aversion is something that's delaying sometimes the decisions. I think that starting with, with pilots or with, if you, if you've got a product or a service that can be sold in, you know, try this with this small area, you know, do a little e commerce site for this market and then test it.
Beyond that or, or just launch this and, and without risk, it's almost in a bubble. And then you grow from that. That always helps prevent that, that risk aversion and, and the cost as well. So once you've proven the ROI at a small level, then you can go to the next step, uh, and then your product needs to be ready to go to the next step.
Of course, that's, uh,
[00:52:54] Roger Courville, CSP: you mentioned the value of advisors and as a guy who in a past life was responsible for relationships with analysts, right? Like Gartner and Forrester, et cetera. Um. You know, on the surface, in a way, it seems. It seems it may seem expensive to some organizations, but at the same time, to your point, they have a point of view that is removed from, from the, the desire to message, right?
I mean, they're used to thinking in frameworks and how to evaluate options in terms of pros and cons because there isn't any vendor out there that doesn't have pros and cons. And I find that, um, for us here at V2 is not a self promo thing, but that's one of the roles that we get to fill because we don't make the technology, right?
We're just producers and we come alongside you with whatever technology you've chosen. And sometimes that includes being an advisor along the way because the switching cost, right? You're an organization that's doing 50 and we've got organizations that are doing hundreds of webinars a year. And, uh, the switching cost is significant, right?
I'm It's not just the cost of the technology. It's the cost of my process. It's the cost of how I manage or integrate data sources, et cetera, et cetera. So, uh, I think that's a key and important point worth putting an exclamation point behind. That's a, that's a great point that you made.
[00:54:21] Mireia Fontbernat: And then some self, self, um, you know, some self, uh, reflection on what is my culture?
Um, am I really risk averse? Cause I can get lots of factual information and pros and cons that are very objective. But if my approach to technology or to the product or to the strategy of the companies is very conservative or very innovative, I might have that, that objective ranking may vary because I You know what?
That risk is, is, is irrelevant to me. I really want to be the new one doing this and I'm ready to take that risk all the other way around, you know? Um, yeah, this, this sounds great on paper, but you know what? I'm going to go the tried and tested way. I'm going to go smaller. I'm going to go. So this is something that you need to assess yourself.
And also as a, if you happen to be an influencer, you of course need to understand your, your client's culture, not just the market. Uh, and this is where, that's why sometimes the coming into Europe is more bad. being able to understand your audience regardless of their country, but that is something that you can do a lot better locally because you just know them better.
[00:55:25] Roger Courville, CSP: I'm a fan of saying, do you doubt your doubts? Because, you know, we, of course, also run into people that are risk averse and that's not entirely bad. Um, but here's why I say that. Uh, from a business analyst or a business intelligence perspective, the value of data is in decision support, right? And so if you think at an executive level, what are the key metrics that drive senior executive decisions, right?
It's, it's top line, it's bottom line, it's time to market or time to result and risk. That's a, that's a financial calculation. Well, if that's a financial calculation, you can actually spend a lot of time and a lot of money trying to gather data to reduce your risk. and have that be a counterproductive kind of, uh, kind of activity.
But, um, I digress. Maria, are there any questions I should have asked you that I haven't?
[00:56:20] Mireia Fontbernat: Nothing. You, we covered quite a lot of things. I, I guess that it's, I would say when you want to enter a new market in particular Europe or in the Middle East and Africa as well, just think about how, how you leverage that risk of cost and investment.
You don't need to open an office straight away. Uh, if you have the resources, great, do that. But then how do you find partners? How do you manage those partners to make sure that you get a truly two way conversation, that you really understand the market and you can also, um, get that information back and feed back into the partners.
And obviously, I've done this not as a partner, but as a person who manages partners or manages markets and working with HQ. And this is not just self promotion, but it's just finding for somebody who will be able to then pass the baton. When you say, yeah, I'm ready now to open or be ready to just. Help you grow in the, in the market, but understanding what your positioning is in back home and how you translate that by, and by that I mean, you know, what are the values that that resonates with?
And if there are any new, new use cases. 'cause sometimes we're very lazy to say, well, we've got this paperwork from the us. You know, we've got this data sheets. We'll just push them down. Think about how you can also add value or how your partners can add value for you. Or somebody like me can add value by feeding back.
You know, have you thought about this use case? Because I have found as well that sometimes, and this goes back to place where even when we were together in, in, in web conferencing, right, that some markets are more open to using the technology in a way that you hadn't thought. So a use case that's very popular in Europe, whereas in the US it didn't.
And guess what? So just think about that cross pollination working both ways and how you can make that
[00:58:03] Roger Courville, CSP: work. One final question, slightly self serving, and it's one that came to mind when we were chatting earlier and then I forgot to ask it. When you think about doing a live webinar and then using the recording thereafter, do you have a particular way that you assess how to balance how much effort or investment you put into the live event versus how you utilize the asset that comes out after that?
[00:58:30] Mireia Fontbernat: I would say that my experience, particularly in Europe, is that the, the on demand tends to work a lot better because people just keep referring to that or might, might watch it in snippets or might think, Oh, I watched that, but I need to re watch it again. And, and it, it is important to put effort, not just put effort.
put all your money with the live event, which is a cost, but remember that you can use that afterwards. And in the same way we're talking about how do you gather the data, gather the data as well from afterwards. Granted, there won't be that many questions, the live questions, but you certainly can prompt people afterwards using the questions that you learned from the live event.
So I would say, um, don't forget that the on demand is going to probably have, have more legs even than the live event.
[00:59:21] Roger Courville, CSP: Thank you so much for spending a little time with us today. Tell our listeners how, how they can get in touch with you.
[00:59:27] Mireia Fontbernat: We can go to LinkedIn and, uh, I'm sure that you will post Roger, you'll post the, uh, my, my LinkedIn address there, but, uh, feel free to contact me and any questions that you might have happy to take them.
And if I can help you in any way, uh, with ideas or suggestions or put you in touch with somebody, I'll be happy to do so. I've
[00:59:46] Roger Courville, CSP: known Maria for a lot of years. She even actually kind of informally served on a board of one of my previous companies just as a friend and advisor. And, um, I would highly encourage you to connect with her on LinkedIn or whatever works for you.
If you are, uh, If you are just listening to this and you don't have a chance to just go to his LinkedIn right now, you can go to the virtual venues blog where we will post this video and links to, to, to connect with Maria will be there and, uh, we will see you on the next edition of thought leader conversations.
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