Marketers today are being asked to do more with less… but what does resilience in your team look like really?
In this episode of #ThoughtLeaderConversations, V2's Roger Courville, CSP sits down with Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE, hope merchant, truth teller, CEO of The Resilience Group, and author of Burnout to Breakthrough: Building Resilience to Refuel, Recharge, and Reclaim What Matters. Author of eigh books, Eileen's Burnout to Breakthrough has been nominated by ChoosingTherapy.com as one of the best books on burnout and recovery of 2022. She's certified through the WHY Institute to help individuals and teams discover their WHY operating systems, and for over 4 years, the British research firm Global Gurus -- who annually conducts a survey of some 22,000 business professionals -- ranks her third among communication experts worldwide.
As you listen in to this conversation, you will laugh, cry, and learn:
Discover how resilience is not about bouncing back but growing through challenges and opportunities to emerge wiser and stronger
Learn why energy management, not time management, is the foundation for sustaining resilience in life and work
Understand how negative self-talk depletes energy and how shifting language from "I have to" to "I choose to" fosters empowerment
Explore how building connections and fostering a sense of belonging is essential for individual and team resilience
Hear how virtual teams can strengthen bonds by turning cameras on and starting meetings with light, personal conversations
Discover the concept of "Number Six" tasks in organizations—outdated practices that drain energy without adding value
Learn the importance of adaptability and how having multiple responses to situations increases the likelihood of success
Find out how laughter and humor are powerful tools for boosting energy and maintaining perspective during tough times
Understand the role of alignment—living and working in ways that align with your personal values and purpose, and
Explore practical strategies for agility, including how to identify priorities and delegate effectively to maintain focus and energy.
Series: #ThoughtLeaderConversations
Sponsor: V2, LLC, expert virtual and hybrid event production, www.VirtualVenues.com
Host: Roger Courville, CSP, https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerc/
Keywords: #Leadership #ResilienceInAction #EnergyManagement #AdaptabilitySkills #ChooseJoy #TeamConnection
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UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Roger Courville, CSP: Marketers today are being asked to do more with less, but what does resilience actually look like in your team? Really? Well, hello and welcome to moving from burnout to breakthrough. My name is Roger Corville and welcome to another episode of thought leader conversations sponsored by the crew here at virtual venues, where you can instantly scale your virtual in the hybrid event production.
With a crew that helps you focus on something other than tech and logistics, but we're not here to talk about us. And I am excited to welcome to the stage. Eileen McDar, CSP CPAE hope merchant truth teller, CEO of the resilience group, author of multiple books, including the eighth and newest book in the series.
Burnout to breakthrough, building resilience to refuel, recharge, and reclaim what matters, which was nominated, interestingly enough, by choosing therapy as one of the best books on burnout and recovery in 2022. Uh, Eileen is a keynote speaker, a workshop facilitator, certified through the Hawaii Institute to help individuals, uh, and teams discover their why breakout, uh, their why operating systems.
And for over a year, four years, uh, the British research firm, global gurus has conducted this annual survey of some 22, 000 businesses. Uh, and in professionals and subsequently then ranks. them. And Eileen has ranked in the top three as an expert. Notably, this, uh, has turned into her being a, an award winning speaker.
The CPAE is actually the, like the, the hall of fame of the National Speakers Association. Welcome Eileen. Uh, glad you're here. Tell us a little more about who you are and what you do.
[00:02:00] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Well, you just said a whole mouthful. I think you said everything. There's nothing left other than the same. Let's see. Uh, I have a twin brother, uh, who just retired as a professor from Boston college.
Um, I have four grandchildren. Um, I live in Dana point, California. I believe that the biggest thing that you and I need to do today in the world, Roger is what you're doing right now is to create connections. I think that's one of the issues that, that, uh, actually can influence our lack of resilience as we feel alone.
And so let me say thank you very much for inviting me, but also thank you for what you're doing, because in this world of people feeling so apart, learning how do we come together. And when we can't do it in the physical space, how do we do it in the virtual space? It's really important.
[00:02:54] Roger Courville, CSP: You know, uh, and I may remember this incorrectly, but, uh, at least as I recall it, I was in the airport in Philadelphia on our way to the national convention for national speakers association and bumped into you and a couple others.
And we ended up in this like. Cab together, whether it was cab or, uh, anyway, I, I'm, I'm, I'm honored that you're here because you're the real deal. So I mean, it's like, oh wow, I'm in a cab with Eileen. Whoa. I mean, she's a big, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. So in your career, you've spoken to and trained and coached a wide variety of leaders and professionals.
But how is it that resilience? became a topic for you to become expert in.
[00:03:45] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Well, I'll tell you, it was a nine 11 when the United States experienced the first only we've ever had attack on our shores and everything stopped. People panicked. Um, I remember telling clients, they were saying, no, you, I said, you need me, you need me to come to you right now.
And they wouldn't let me fly. No, you can't fly. And then I looked around my neighborhood. I looked within my community, and what I saw were people responding. Responding in ways, whether it was the 10 year old kids that were down here selling lemonade, and the money was going to go to the victims in New York.
Whether it was what was being said in churches, and I realized that, you know, what we were being asked to do was this idea of being resilient. So the book that I wrote from that was called Your Resilient Spirit. for staying right side up in a world that's upside down because it was certainly upside down for us.
And that started me looking at deeper and deeper. What is this thing called resilience? And over the, I think how long ago this was now we're in 2024. So we're talking 25 years ago, you know, when this happened. Uh, and I think resilience is. Even more important now, and I, I do define resilience very differently than the dictionary does.
If you open up the dictionary, it says, and if I can ask this of any audience, you know, or if we're on a virtual thing, I say type it in what it is. It inevitably will come out, bounce back. That's great, Roger. If you're a tree, if you're a piece of steel, it bends and it goes back to its original position.
But I think for the human system, that's not what resilience is. Resilience is growing through, growing through challenge or opportunity so that you end up wiser, smarter on the other side. At the end of the day, resilience is all about energy management. And what is energy but the capacity to do work? So how is it that I either increase my energy, how do I renew my energy, so that I can grow through?
And please notice I'm saying, not only people think of resilience as only when something is bad, bad, bad, you gotta be resilient. No! It's when there's a big energy demand on you. So for example, Um, Roger, I know you've had some some challenges. You were in a in an automobile accident and you've had to work through that.
Okay, that was a challenge. But also for you doing this program, it takes energy for you to do it. If you are offered this great venue to do a virtual, a virtual program for 5000 people around the world, which I actually have done before, that requires energy. That requires resilience.
[00:06:45] Roger Courville, CSP: I just want to give you a hug right now. Okay. Being virtual. So in fact, take that a little further. Connect. Mental health and resilience for our listeners.
[00:06:59] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Okay. And mental health is a huge issue right now. Huge. Huge. And as I started to say when we began this thing about ability to connect, when we feel alone, unhurt, not listened to, less than, in our brain, that's where it all starts, it all starts up here.
Our spirits, our energy sinks down. So one of the things is to begin to say, How can I renew that energy? What is depleting my energy? And I'll tell you, the first thing that depletes our energy It's what we say to ourselves in our head, and so I like to tell groups, the first thing you have to do is, will you change what you say to yourself?
We talk to ourselves all the time. Stop and listen to what you say. And when I say things like, I'm less than, I'm no good, I, I have to do this. That particular, as that relates to burnout, I have to do this. I keep saying, no, you're going to change that first. Every time you say, I have to, you begin to say. I choose to.
I don't have to. Roger, I didn't have to do this with you. This is my choice. I chose to do this. Very different than saying, Well, I have to go talk to Roger today. I'm choosing to do this. And if it's my choice, are there some more powerful choices in the scheme of my life that I might make? And by the way, this has not been there done that about the T shirt.
Resiliency is a life skill. And there are days we're going to be better at it than others.
[00:08:50] Roger Courville, CSP: Well, I'm certainly glad that you have chosen to be with us today, drop a few wisdom nuggets on us and, uh, already a few. Um, so let's talk about this in, in the context of a world that often works remotely. Whether that's remote work or a remote presentation, uh, what advice do you have for, for a crew that may or may not be in a place where I could give you a physical hug, put my arm around you and go, man, I seriously appreciate you.
What advice might you have for resilience in a team?
[00:09:34] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: All right, so here's the first one. Put on your camera. You're not allowed to keep your camera off. You see, you and I, first and foremost, we connect with each other, with our face, with our eyes. If I can't see you, you are a non person. You're a name on a screen. So that's the first thing, is put your camera on.
Number two, don't get into the biggest, deepest subject that you know right away. We need to understand who sits around the table. And so my preference would be that we have small groups and we ask a generic non threatening question just to have people find what do you have in common. So, um, I did one the other day.
What was the question? The question was, um, what's your favorite breakfast food? Really? What would you do with that? Well, by the way, you have to tie this into why you're holding the thing together. And so when we talked about the breakfast, I said, you know, if you and I were to have breakfast together, what would be the first thing we'd want to talk about as we're sitting and eating our For me, it's, uh It's avocado toast.
That's my go to breakfast. Um, and you might be having scrambled eggs and ham. I don't know. But what would you want us to talk about that would be important to you? And so what we begin to do virtually is we begin to understand and listen to who sits around that virtual which is why oftentimes if you have a huge group, we do broke at breakout rooms so I can see each other in a breakout room.
When, uh, when, when you and I finished this today, Roger, I'm going to be doing some phone banking. And what I've discovered in doing phone banking is It was wonderful. I was reaching people who I think nobody had talked to in a long time. And right now, because of what has happened in our country and in the southeast, a number of these people are along that eastern seaboard.
They were in South Carolina. They were in Georgia. They were in Florida. So instead of talking about the reason why I was doing phone banking, my first question is, how the heck are you? What's happening around you? I discovered one, one woman was there. She was caring for her three year old grandson. And her daughter, because the daughter's husband had just died, and they were living with this woman in the house, and can you imagine how exhausting that is?
And the daughter's sick, so she's got a sick daughter, she's got a three year old grandson, and she's in the middle of all of this, this horribleness that's related to, you know, storms. And I said, what's your daughter's name? You know, the fact that I knew I could say your daughter's name. I said, you know, I have, I do, I do prayers in the morning.
I do prayers at night. I'd like to add your daughter and your grandson. Would that be okay? The relief, Roger, in her voice was like, Ah, yes, that would be wonderful. So I'm, you know, when, when I do this phone banking, I don't want name, rank, serial number. I want to connect as a person. And that's what we do when we have these virtual gatherings.
[00:13:03] Roger Courville, CSP: If you are listening to this right now, uh, we are recording this just on the heels of this, uh, crazy hurricane. That just swept through the Southeast of the United States. And I know we have listeners around the world and, and, um, and, and you might be hearing this a couple months later, but what Eileen is talking about here, uh, isn't about connecting to, it's about connecting through.
There's a real person on the other side of zoom or Webex or Adobe connect or Microsoft teams or whatever your, uh, whatever you're connecting with.
And if it's a smaller training or consulting or meeting kind of connection, you might be able to ask, what was your daughter's name? At the same time. Uh, you, you might be doing a presentation in a way that has 500 or a thousand people, but that actually doesn't mean that you can't ask a question that allows a thousand people to type something into chat.
And now you can go, Oh, Eileen, Julie, Pradeep, Bill, Kylie. And you might see quote unquote, five people, but in the process of you seeing those five people, the other 995 realized that you're there with them in through, not just two. So Eileen, thank you. You just nailed it. With regard to the nature of, of what's so important at the center of the bullseye, and, and, and maybe this is emotional for me because we are on the cusp of people in actual real time struggling with what's going on in Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, et cetera, right now.
But it's, it's more than that, right? Because there are real people on the other side of things. And when we come back to your, your, uh, topic of resilience and what does it mean for us as human beings, a big part of that is, is what we do together. Yeah.
[00:16:02] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: It's, it's, you've nailed it beautifully, Roger. It's um, and that's, I think, what we, what we yearn for in our organizations.
You know, I listen to people and they, they disparage where they are. The reason they do is they feel that they are a, a nameless cog in a wheel. That they don't matter and it's because, I mean, I look at some of the things, you know, you get an email blast and it goes blah, blah, blah, they don't even know who's on the other side of the email blast.
You know, I just, the more, the more that anyone in a management position can connect on a human basis with the people around them. So it's not just name, rank, and serial and do these seven things and report back to me at the end of the week. It's really, you know, Hey, hey, your mom was sick, how's she doing today?
You don't have to get in these big, hairy conversations, but it's that you know that I have a mom and you know that mom was sick. Um, and somebody's going to say, well, I'm in an organization of 5, 000 people. So you start small. So what if you did it with the 10 people that are around you that, that you talk to every day?
And one of those 10 went out to another five and another five. And that's, that's the way we grow the connections. And at the end of the day, energy is all about connections that either give me strength, let me grow or deplete me. And if I have a bad connection, it's like having a bad connection in your car, doesn't go anywhere, just stays there, just doesn't move, doesn't move, doesn't move.
But good connections allow that car to move. And the same thing is true with the human system.
[00:17:51] Roger Courville, CSP: How does that relate to adaptability?
[00:17:55] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: So when I said the notion about what do we get in our head? Adaptability is can I find multiple ways of responding to a situation? And it actually comes from the field of biology and in the field of biology It said that the organism with the greatest number of responses to any given situation is the one that survives So Roger if you and I were gonna play chess and I knew three chess moves and you knew 33 chess moves You're going to win.
And the same thing is real life. If I only have one thing I know how to do, one, one response, then I'm limited. So part of adaptability is to say, how many ways can I choose to respond to this event, to this person? And there's always multiple ways. I might not like some of them, but I can, I can choose this.
And when I look at what's available and maybe what I need to do is Ask somebody that I know, say, say, how would you respond to this? Give me another option. And it's just saying, oh, no, well, that's a stupid thing. Why would never do that? Just say, thank you very much. It is amazing how much wisdom is around us.
If we ask, tell me what you see, tell me what you know. And so adaptability is all about finding multiple ways of responding. Now, what will keep us back from responding? Is we get stuck in, well, that's the way we've always done it, you know, that's the way it goes, it's how we play around here. Well, there's a lot of stuff right now that is the way we used to do it is, nope, not going to work anymore, not going to work anymore.
And I, I, I love to tell a story which comes out of World War II, in which NATO officers were invited by their British host to come into London and to see a display of motorized artillery. And when they got there, they looked down on the field and here were six soldiers, five of whom were very busy getting all the motorized artillery ready to do what it was going to do.
And there was a sixth person just standing there at parade rest. And so the, the NATO officers asked the British host, they said, excuse me, what's that man doing? Why sir, that's number six. He's not doing anything. So it's his job. It's number six. The British didn't know why he was there. They got back, gathered the old field manuals.
started flipping through it and discovered that number six was back there when artillery was pulled by horses. And number six's job was to hold the reins. Now do you think we might have some number six's? In our organization, yep. Yep. I said, you know, that's what you want to do. Go identify. Is that a number six?
Why? I don't know. It's just, it's the way we've always done. I can still remember way. This is way back when, when, um, We had very few telecoms in the United States and this one person was, was being asked to put together this report. It took him, I can't remember it was just two or three days to make this massive report of whatever it was that they wanted.
And then somebody asked a very, it went out and was disseminated wildly, widely. And someone said, do you guys read it? Nobody read it. Here's this guy doing this report, wasting days of his energy and time and nobody read the report. Number six.
[00:21:42] Roger Courville, CSP: Number six. I remember that. I just passed my 25 year anniversary in.
The virtual events business. I started in September of 1999. I remember the company that I co founded when we left Microsoft. And we got a couple million bucks of angel funding and started, started this company. And half the company did. Production and the other kind of half did consulting training on, uh, implementing things like, this was even before zoom existed.
Uh, zoom was founded out of a crew on, uh, that came out of Webex slash Cisco. Anyway, we were, we were training a sales team in Europe. To even be able to sell this stuff. And interestingly, the main person who was, uh, who we were, who literally signed the deal to, uh, who was, who we had to go through to, to, to do our work, had his assistant print emails and bring them to bring, bring the printed emails to him, and then he would dictate a response and she would go back and respond and
Number six, you
[00:23:11] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: just even take that one thing, the number six, you know, and cause your energy then is expended in ways that don't make sense. And that can lead to burnout. You won't be very resilient because you keep doing the same old, same old, same old. So I think, I think no one would a number six is.
And the other thing that drains our energy, Roger. In, in our organizations, in our family life, it's negativity. When we become negative, it's, it's a black hole. So again, part of adaptability, is there another way of seeing this? So for example, um, right now, and this could be different when people listen to this, but right now in the southeastern part of the United States, there is a tremendous amount of pain, and hurt, and loss.
It's going to be incredibly difficult. People have lost their homes, their businesses, their cars, the roads, whatever. So you said, well, how can you be, that's all negative. Yes. And. You hear what I'm saying? Yes, and now we have a chance. How can we build better? Maybe what I need to do is we don't want that creek to run so close to the highway and we need to change this.
What are the positive things? One of the things positive things we're seeing neighbors who probably never talked to each other. They're out helping each other. So even in the midst sometimes of what's so hard, there might be other ways that we can say yes and
[00:24:56] Roger Courville, CSP: What's another concept from your book, your latest book that leaders might take, uh, particularly given either, as we record this, the difficulty happening in the southeast of the United States with, with the hurricane or the division. In our country, in the United States, with regard to, um, the political climate, we're all dealing with this inside of our companies, right?
We're dealing with difficulties with regard to ideology, uh, with economics, uh, how might Somebody take one of the ideas in your book and help build their teams more effectively.
[00:25:45] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Okay, so obviously there's many things under that umbrella of adaptability that a leader could take and use if he or she so chose to.
The other skill set, because I think there actually are four skills. Adaptability, agility, laughability, and alignment. So let me date the second one. Agility. Agility is speed. How fast can you get that the world is different and how do you choose to respond to it? And so under that notion of agility, I like to say that if you looked at what you did in the course of the day, what is it that you are the one that really needs to do it?
Or maybe it doesn't need to be. Done that way, or maybe it's a place of growth for Sam over here. You know, it's something Sam has wanted to look at, so why don't I give this to Sam? Because he can do this. Or maybe for right now, it is what it is. And I can accept it. So, agility, agility, part of agility is horse sense.
And horse sense is the ability to say nay, or whoa, is the case may be. And sometimes part of agility of being able to maintain that level of energy is to be able to say no. And women particularly have a hard time doing that. We want people to like us. Oh, I'll let them down. She's my friend. I have to do this.
Well, maybe it's Not no, but maybe it's not now or what if I do these two things instead of these 22 things so Developing more sense it goes along with agility now the other one, which I think is really important is laugh ability laughter is A huge, a huge energy inducer when you and I laugh, even for just a little bit, and that's why we're seeing some of these silly things that come out now, you know, that are parodies and whatever.
And you laugh at it, even though it's very, you can still laugh it. I remember in one of because I live in California in one of the earthquakes that we had out here. Um, I was driving on a street there in the Los Angeles area and here was a house that you could tell was going down the hill and there was a big sign.
It said for sale, um, some work required
[00:28:26] Roger Courville, CSP: and
[00:28:27] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: you had to laugh at that. You know, somebody was saying, you know, we just have to, you have to laugh at that. Um, I remember a friend, um, who had cancer and, um, he would walk the halls. Of the hospital and find things that were humorous. And it would call them out to people just to get them to laugh when, um, when my mom, I, I think I can say this when my, I cared for my mom for the last six years of her life.
And one of the many times we had her in the hospital and it's always, you know, two beds and there's a, there's the curtain in between them. And the woman on the other side obviously had Alzheimer's and, um, they desperately needed her. To go to the bathroom and so the curtain was closed and they were doing what they do to it, you know, induce a bowel movement and I'm sitting there and I heard the nurse say, Marge, it's a boy, it's a boy, push, push.
Just cracked me up. And I know for the nurses that were on that other side, they had to laugh too. And I have a funny feeling that actually worked for Marge on the other side. Anyway. I digress, but, and the last one, and this to me is a really big one, maybe, maybe actually is the underpinning of them all, is alignment.
And alignment says, am I doing that which is most meaningful to me? That if I departed this earth, Today,
I would hear, good job, good and faithful servant. So alignment, this is why this idea, I think more and more people are looking for this. What's my meaning? Why am I here? What matters? What matters? And I think, um, for me right now, because I'm in this transition stage of my professional life, you know, I've decided with all this, Anger and hatred.
You know what I think my meaning is right now? Joy. I think one of the things that I can do is I can transfer joy. And you know how I join Roger? I run every day. I run six miles a day. And inevitably I see people. And I see dogs. And so I will say something to the person who's running. I will say, Oh, those are great shoes!
Or, you know, I like that shirt. Or, may I pet your dog? What's your dog's name? People smile. It gives people a break from whatever they're thinking that might not be positive. I've made more friends just by smiling and saying, What can I do that is Joyful today during our pandemic, um, people were, we're saying thank you to their mail carriers as they brought around their mail.
And I realized no one's saying thank you to the people who are stuck inside the post office with the long lines and grumpy people. So, um, I have taken it upon myself to, um, On occasion, bring my homemade lemon cake into the post office. And the first time I did it, Roger, I said, I just want to say thank you for the work you're doing.
The two people behind the counter started to cry.
Play your cards right, and I'll send you a lemon cake. Ha ha ha ha ha.
[00:32:34] Roger Courville, CSP: Uh, Pat, um, and I'm about ready to cry too. Um, just this last week. And I mean this quite literally, and I do not say this in a self aggrandizing sort of way. I was walking out of a store and in front of me was a, an, an, uh, an older African American man.
And on the very back of his ball cap, it said veteran. And I said, thank you for serving. And he turns around. And the front side of his cap said Vietnam, and I said, ah, my dad was, I did, did my dad did two tours in Vietnam. And he said, well, tell your dad, thank you for serving.
[00:33:29] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Okay. You got me. What
[00:33:36] Roger Courville, CSP: you're talking about with the content of your book, with the, with the idea of connecting through, not to.
Whether it's email or zoom or whatever you're doing,
you have a desperate need for people being real and seeing you.
Yes, we need to reach our goals. We need to make our numbers, et cetera, et cetera. But more than ever, there is an element of people being people. Yeah. In Goland. What's your dog's name?
Oh, yeah, you, you took. One of your kids was, went to the doctor last week. Everything okay?
[00:34:40] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Yeah. Yeah. You got me crying.
[00:34:44] Roger Courville, CSP: I know, me too. You
[00:34:47] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: know what? There's too much hate. And so we have to be beacons of love and joy. Whatever is that small sphere of influence. And we all have it. We have a sphere of influence.
Some people don't, but whatever's my sphere of influence, that's my job for today. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart for allowing me this opportunity in these crazy times to be able to express this. So, Roger, thank you for your service.
[00:35:27] Roger Courville, CSP: Alright, two questions, and we'll wrap it up here. When someone comes to you, Looking for a speaker, trainer, coach, consultant, the various hats that you wear.
What's the right question to ask you with regard to, is Eileen the right person to bring in for my team for my conference for what's, what's a question that. Where you, when they ask you this question, they know that you're the person that's going to nail it for them, for their team.
[00:36:11] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Well, actually it isn't the question that they would ask me.
It's the question I would ask them. So because I'm not right for every group, I have to work down if it doesn't feel right. You know, it's not, I don't care if you give me a million bucks. I'm not in this to make a million bucks. I'm in this to feel that I made a contribution. So my question to them, and then it would depend on their response to me, is tell me why you're holding this meeting, this gathering, this virtual assembly.
What would make this successful to you? Why are you doing this? What do you want people to walk away with? I might not be the right person, but I've got to understand that first. So don't just tell me it's a sales meeting. That means nothing to me. I need to know more. So it's my question that will lead to their question.
[00:37:18] Roger Courville, CSP: All right, here's my last question for you.
[00:37:22] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: You made me cry, Roger. And then my nose, now my nose goes.
[00:37:27] Roger Courville, CSP: People are probably just listening to this as opposed to watching it. But, uh, you know, if you're watching, you're watching me wipe away the tears too. I think that's, that's a first on a business podcast.
But, Hylene, what What question should I have asked you that I haven't asked you?
[00:37:47] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: Well, I know you'll be very good about telling people how to get in touch with me. That's very helpful, you know, and for the people who are either listening or watching to this, if they want to have further conversations. So, uh, but I'm not worried about that.
Cause you'll take, you'll take care of that. What didn't you ask me? Um, actually you've done such a beautiful job. And you, you're one of the few interviewers, Roger, who actually looked at my work. I've had people interview me and they looked at the cover of a book and they have no clue what's in it. So you've done, you've done your homework very well.
So I don't think there's a question that you need to ask.
[00:38:38] Roger Courville, CSP: I'm laughing because I've I've been, I've been that interviewee, right? So as a guy who's done a lot of speaking, written, written several books and whatever, I've shown up to be interviewed on a podcast and was like, uh, did you? Even look at my website. It's like, what? Yeah,
[00:39:03] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: it's really, it's I get these. I've gotten two emails in this week was dear.
C. P. A. E. Means they don't even know what my name is.
[00:39:12] Roger Courville, CSP: That was a
[00:39:13] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: little, you know, it's a identification way farther back. You know, it's not related to. In fact, when people want, um, you know, you have to give them introductions when they, you know, like you're saying, you know, An introduction tells you what I did.
What's more important now is what do I do.
[00:39:35] Roger Courville, CSP: I love that. And I'm just going to say, uh, thank you to Eileen. Uh, wherever you happen to be listening to this. Uh, the virtual venues website, YouTube, LinkedIn, you'll find links to Eileen and, uh, that will get you to her website and know how to connect with her. Uh, importantly though, you can see 'cause the CSP is the certified speaking professional, that's the highest earned designation in National Speakers Association.
But Eileen isn't just a CSP, she's A-C-P-A-E, which is. Peer voted, essentially hall of fame. You can see why Eileen is a hall of famer. Stories, practical ideas. I would hope that you, uh, would take one of the many wisdom nuggets and, uh, book Eileen to drop a whole lot more wisdom nuggets on your, on your, uh, on your team, on your conference, et cetera.
Thank you. And to our wonderful guest, Eileen McDar and
[00:40:52] Eileen McDargh, CSP, CPAE: into our room. Thank you. Roger.
[00:40:55] Roger Courville, CSP: Thank you again to our sponsor, virtual venues, uh, who makes this possible. Uh, and, uh, we will catch you on the next episode of thought leader conversations.
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