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Writer's pictureRoger Courville, CSP

Open doors as a marketing book author | Cathy Fyock, CSP

Let’s be honest, marketing executives have mastered a lot of skills – but if using authorship of a book or workbook to open doors for you isn’t among them, today’s thought leader has some great news for you.


In this episode of #ThoughtLeaderConversations, V2's Head of Strategy Roger Courville, CSP connects with Cathy Fyock, CSP who has helped dozens of executives tell their story, amplify thought leadership, create competitive differentiation, and build credibility and trust. (Learn more at https://www.cathyfyock.com/).


As you listen in on the conversation you will learn:


  • How a book can amplify your thought leadership and credibility

  • The strategic first steps for writing a book aligned with your career

  • Why corporate executives benefit from sharing their wisdom in a book

  • The power of books to open unexpected doors and new opportunities

  • How to find time to write a book

  • How to approach book writing if you're hesitant or feel unqualified

  • The benefits of anthologies for dipping your toes into book writing

  • How speaking and authorship together create a powerful professional tool






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Sponsor: V2, LLC, expert virtual and hybrid event production, www.VirtualVenues.com  

Host: Roger Courville, CSP, https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerc/   



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UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT


[00:00:00] Roger Courville, CSP: Let's be honest, marketing executives have mastered a lot of skills, but if using authorship of a book to open doors for you isn't among them, Today's Thought Leader for you has some great news for you. Hello and welcome. My name is Roger Courville and today we're going to be talking about opening doors as a marketing book author.

Welcome to another episode of Thought Leader Conversations sponsored by the crew here at Virtual Venues where you can instantly scale your virtual and hybrid event. production team with a, with a crew that helps you focus on something other than tech and logistics. But we're not here to talk about us today.

And I am happy to welcome to the virtual stage, Kathy Fioch, CSP, accomplished speaker, accomplished coach, authored and coauthored 11 books and importantly has helped dozens of executives tell their story, amplify thought leadership, create competitive differentiation, build credibility and trust. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why that you will hear today about.

How a book can make a big difference for you, even if you're in a corporate career. Notably, Kathy is accomplished as a speaker. I'm just proud of this part, boasting the highest earned award from National Speakers Association, the CSP, Certified Speaking Professional. I know how much work goes into getting that.

So I'm excited that Kathy is here with us. Welcome, Kathy. Tell us a little more about. who you are and what you do. 

[00:01:22] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Well, uh, it's great to be here, Roger. Um, I've been a book coach now for 11 years and what I think is maybe most surprising is that, um, I really don't like to write. But what I have found, it is the great differentiator.

It is the great credibility tool. It is the great, uh, way to stand out in the crowd. So while I don't like writing, I do like having written. 

[00:01:56] Roger Courville, CSP: That's the way I put it sometimes too. I've written four books and And I think of them as the best business card I've ever created. Right. I mean, I would much rather, instead of handing somebody a 50 cent business card, I'd rather just hand them a copy of my book.

And I don't care if it cost me a few bucks. It's made me a whole lot more money. 

[00:02:16] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because you become the person who wrote the book on it. And that's what authority is really all about. It's about authorship. Yep. 

[00:02:27] Roger Courville, CSP: So Kathy, one of the things that I loved on your website is you just. Put out there your own values you believe in people believing everybody's got a story to tell and I know that doesn't just mean a Once upon a time memoir or something like that.

So out of curiosity, do you think This is particularly true with corporate executives. What are they missing out on if they don't have a book? 

[00:02:50] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Well, I think sometimes people think oh who am I to write a book and I don't know Who are you not to write a book? Because you likely have some wisdom some experiences some knowledge Uh, and it may not be your It may be something bigger than that.

Your knowledge, your insights, your perspective, that would be helpful when shared with, um, with your tribe. And I think what's, what's interesting is, is that, um, sometimes we, we don't think, You know, we have value, but yet, if you think about your younger self and you think about writing a book to your younger self, sometimes that just puts it into perspective because it really does make sense to, uh, help educate, give hope, give inspiration to that younger version of you.

And that's really what I do when I help people sit down to write their books. 

[00:03:53] Roger Courville, CSP: We're speaking today with Kathy Fyok, KathyFyok. com. And I'm going to encourage you to go there spelled with a C for Kathy and Fyok is F Y O C K if you're just listening here, but I'm going to encourage you to go there because she's got the coolest little custom illustration as her kind of logo, moniker, whatever you might want to call that.

And I mean, if you, if you do nothing else, just go there because that's a, it's a, it's a brilliant little illustration. I love that. Kathy. You've helped a lot of professionals turn their expertise into a book. For a corporate, what are the first steps they should take to even begin the process, particularly if their schedule is already packed?

[00:04:34] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Well, the good news is even if you have a packed schedule, you can write a book. Almost all of my authors are in some ways too busy to write a book, but it's possible, but you have to have, I think a strategic plan. So you need to put your plan together before you start writing. So I know some people say, just, just sit down and start writing.

No, I don't, I don't think so. I think you sit down and you make a strategic plan that aligns with your career, with your business. So the strategic elements are the purpose for the book. for you. I mean, it's also for your readers, but what do you want the book to do for you? Do you want to use it as a, um, a tool to get new clients?

Do you want to use it as a tool to influence senior management that you're a part of the team? Figure that out first. So the purpose of the book, the thesis of the book, what is it about? What is your, um, Uh, focus on the topic. It's not just the topic, it's your slice of a topic. So what is your point? For example, my first book was about the aging workforce, but that's a big broad topic.

My slice of it was what employers need to do to harness the power of an aging workforce. So that's the difference in a topic and a thesis. So coming up with your thesis, what is it that you, your point is about your topic? Uh, the next thing is to identify your target reader. Who do you want this book to be for?

And I even have some exercises that I like to use with my clients in helping them discern What the reader really is looking for, uh, so that you're not just writing your book for you. Some people think, Oh, well, I'm writing my story. So the book is about me. Well, it may be about you, but it's not for you.

Uh, if you're writing for you, it's a journal or it's a diary, or it's something you give to your family and, and friends, close friends. But if you're really wanting to write a book, There's something in it for them. So it's being very clear on what that is and who you're speaking to. And then it's creating your structure, uh, whether that's the 10 ideas or pillars or principles, or it's the three steps or it's, the five concepts, figuring out what those elements are and, um, creating a very detailed content outline.

So that's, those are the first steps I believe in, uh, getting clear on the book you need to write.

[00:07:31] Roger Courville, CSP: In your experience, um, for somebody that has never considered writing the book, do you have a story? Can I just, can I just say, what's a story of someone that you've worked with? who really had never done this, maybe hadn't even ever considered it, but somehow connected with you and then got a result that, that they were hoping for

[00:07:59] Cathy Fyock, CSP: almost. It's interesting. Almost all of my authors find that writing the book takes them to a new level. Um, it either brings them more business. It gives them more clarity. about their topic. It gives them more confidence in their topic. It gives them, um, I don't know, they're stepping into this bigger version of themselves.

They're stepping into their true thought leadership. And that's what writing a book, that's the power of writing a book. I'm thinking right now of one of my clients, Ruth, who is writing a book about her, her story. She'd done a TEDx talk. She had been a speaker. She'd been working in her area for some time, but she'd never written the book.

And in fact, she was told that if she wanted to get on main stage and do those keynote presentations, she needed to have a book. So, um, but this process of sitting down to write the book was, really, um, an intriguing discovery. She learned more things about her topic than she had even initially thought.

And now she is booking more business than she would have ever dreamed. She's getting calls from the media that, uh, she had never, um, received before. So it's brought her a whole new level of involvement with her topic. with her audience and a new level in her business. 

[00:09:37] Roger Courville, CSP: Here's something that I've experienced.

Yes. As an independent speaker, which I was for a whole lot of years, and even when I was employed for somebody. And I'm just curious if you've had a similar experience. For me, meeting planners who book speakers. Mm 

[00:09:55] Cathy Fyock, CSP: hmm. 

[00:09:56] Roger Courville, CSP: Love. Authors, I think they almost overvalue graduate degrees and, and authorship. Right?

You can, but when you're, when they can introduce you as the author of, there's just, I think you used the word authority. There's this instant credibility. Yes. That happens. 

[00:10:14] Cathy Fyock, CSP: There absolutely is. In some, absolutely. 

[00:10:17] Roger Courville, CSP: You know, I've seen, I've seen CEOs who wrote a book on the topic of, you know, in the realm of what their organization was.

Mm-Hmm. . And the point wasn't that they were even gonna, they weren't, not that they were gonna go be a professional speaker. If you're a senior executive, you're already speaking in one context or another at internal events and external events on webinars or whatever. Starting a presentation with somebody else setting up your credibility, uh, is a powerful thing.

view that 

[00:10:49] Cathy Fyock, CSP: differently. Well, let me share one other story with you, a personal story. And that is I made this move before I was a book coach. I've been doing this work for 11 years now, but before that, I was a human resources executive professional and did speaking and training for HR, uh, individuals. Uh, but I wanted to make this transition to be a book coach.

So what did I do? I mean, I had, The, uh, experience that I had that contributed, I'd been an author and I'd done some coaching, but I really hadn't been a book coach. So I wrote a book about how to write a book and that became my number one credential. And now my books are really my credentials for being a book coach.

And I love that because I'm walking proof that a book can reposition or position you in ways that you never dreamed of before. 

[00:11:53] Roger Courville, CSP: Interesting. That is a great story. One of the things that I know you have, uh, led and I may or may not use the right terminology here. So correct me is, is creating anthologies that have say a dozen authors.

Each of who, whom contribute a chapter. Is that a way that someone may, you know, utilize somebody like you to get their name in print without necessarily having to write the whole thing? 

[00:12:20] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Absolutely. It's a wonderful way because a lot of people, well, in fact, when I started, the reason I started doing anthology.

was that I had a lot of my HR colleagues because that was my background. They said, Oh, I'd love to write. I'd love to have a book with my name on the cover, but I don't just don't think I'm ready for my own solo book. So that's when I got the idea of putting an anthology together. themed anthologies. And I just did another one just, uh, that came out several weeks ago called when work works.

And it featured a lot of different professionals and executives talking about what makes ideal workplaces. And it's, it's much easier for someone to write a chapter and it's a wonderful way to dip your toe in the water and see if you can write a chapter. And of course I'm giving coaching and support and we have all the publishing services.

So it's been a great way for folks to explore what writing a book might be like. 

[00:13:28] Roger Courville, CSP: Do I remember correctly that one of the services you have is like a mastermind group where people can, am I remembering correctly? 

[00:13:34] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Yes, you are perfect. I do a speaker author mastermind that came after Lois Kramer and I wrote our book, The Speaker Author, Sell More Books and Book More Speeches.

I'm a big believer that the combination of writing a book and speaking are a really powerful punch and that it establishes your thought leadership like nothing else. So once I wrote that book, I realized there were a lot of people in my, in my group that had written the book, but they didn't know how to operationalize the book and to put it into action.

I've always said that, um, a book is a magic wand and it will do magic for you and your career, but you have to do something with it. Just like, you know, you just can't hold onto the magic wand and expect it to work. magical tricks for you. You have to know how to wield your, uh, the magic. So it's, uh, that's a group that I have.

And we talk about orchestrating the launch, uh, getting, uh, reviews, getting, uh, reviews posted on Amazon, get getting testimonials for the front of the book, how to create a one sheet that positions you for speaking opportunities. We talk about all of those things. things because the book alone is a wonderful tool, but sometimes you have to know who to send it to or how to get it out there in the world.

And sometimes gifting the book is a fabulous strategy as you've already suggested. 

[00:15:10] Roger Courville, CSP: That worked really well for me. And, uh, of course, to be fair, we're talking to corporate marketers here. So this strategy may or may not necessarily, uh, touch down. But for me, I had excellent success with getting a corporate sponsor for a book so that I could give, give away 1500 copies or something like that.

Um, or letting them use it as a promotional like I would, I would rework the cover and put their logo on the cover and then they could use it as a promotional tactic, you know, to, to, to gather leads or that kind of thing. And they, uh, and they had a lot, a lot of success with that. And that was a six digit enterprise that worked really well for me, but I'm thinking now back to the kind of the corporate executive you mentioned gifting the book.

And I think about that. You know, I mean, you're speaking at your company's annual sales conference or, or something like that. I mean, you want to, you want to help your message outlive the 45 minutes that you've got on stage or something. That is a powerful way to, um, to move a few books, but also, again, establish credibility.

[00:16:20] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Absolutely. Uh, 

[00:16:22] Roger Courville, CSP: the reason I brought up the Mastermind and kind of this kind of moves into kind of my, my next question. The reason I I brought that up is because I have found. like you that I'm not a fan of writing, but, but I love having written dealing with that. We're going to my doctoral thesis right now.

The, the, Power of a mastermind is accountability as well, right? I mean, it's somebody that shows up and you get inspired because I just had a crappy day, but Kathy just had a great day and did something that just motivated me to get back at it. And, and, uh, so I'm curious, how does the process of writing a book help people clarify their brand message or communication strategy?

You even mentioned Learning more about your own topic. When you wrote your first book, can you share a success story or how, pick a part of that word salad right there. and uh, 

[00:17:16] Cathy Fyock, CSP: absolutely. Absolutely. There's something when you, when you sit down to write a book, you have to say what is. What is the essence of what I have learned?

What is the, the core nugget? If, if people can walk away with one element or one perspective, one insight, what is that critical piece? And doing that critical thinking about your topic helps you. clarify it, helps you write it more, more effectively, but it's also more powerful than for you to have sort of mastered that element of your topic.

So I, I love the fact that writing about your topic helps you understand it in a much deeper way. And I've had several authors come back to me and say, you know, you said that, and I wasn't sure exactly what that meant, but now I have. A whole level of a lot of times it shows up as confidence, but I think it's, um, a deepening understanding and, um, integration, uh, of that content with who you are and what you believe.

[00:18:41] Roger Courville, CSP: I want to even put an exclamation point behind something you said a little earlier, and I'm not even remembering exactly how you said it, but you, you talked about a book opening doors in a way that. Someone and I just at the time that you said that I thought oh, yeah I want to put an exclamation point behind that because that's something that most people don't realize What it's gonna do for you until you actually have done that.

I'm just curious. Is there anything to expound on there? 

[00:19:09] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Absolutely. I've had folks call me because I didn't meet them. They're not in my circle Uh, I had no connection with this individual, but they found my book either if they just found it on Amazon or someone recommended it to them, but they found it and then they called me and I love that it's a way to truly build business because I have new clients because of my books.

I think that's pretty cool. . Yeah. 

[00:19:43] Roger Courville, CSP: So just outta curiosity, when when you started your business, you decided to write a book was the primary personal motivation because you were starting your business, meaning you, you, you needed to pivot from being an HR executive. 

[00:19:59] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Exactly. I needed, I needed something to establish my new identity and I wanted my book to speak for me in a way that a bio could never speak to what I knew and what I could offer.

So it really presented a value proposition to clients and prospects that I had not been able to capture before. 

[00:20:27] Roger Courville, CSP: Tell me how you work with someone to overcome the crisis. What I'm going to call the curse of expertise. Those aren't my words. I read that in a book somewhere, right? Sometimes we know something so deeply and well because we've been in we've been working at this company for a long time and you know I really know marketing because now i'm the senior director of whatever but I don't necessarily know how to boil it down Right.

I found that for the first time that I ever worked with an editor She started asking me questions and helping me clarify some things in part because I'm like, Oh, yeah, I guess I see it that way because I already know how to drive a stick shift. It's hard to get back to remembering what it was like to not be able to drive a stick shift.

Just out of curiosity. How do you help someone who take all that knowledge in their head and and start to 

[00:21:15] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Yeah, sometimes I have them think about their younger self and what would their younger self need to understand in order to adopt the principles or master this body of knowledge? Sometimes I have them explain it to me.

I'll say, I don't, I don't get it. They, uh, the way I work with clients each week, they turn in work to me. So there is ongoing accountability because I also don't want their whole book to be written and it be, off the mark. So they turn in their work to me and I will give them feedback. Like, I don't, I don't understand this.

Is there a step before this? What else do I need to know to get to the point that you're making here? So I think that's the, the beauty of having a book coach is that you get that ongoing feedback and accountability. And cheerleading and all the other things that I do. But, but it is giving that feedback to say, this is not clear or it's, I'm sure it's crystal clear to you, but you haven't set the stage properly.

You haven't, um, welcomed me as the reader into your narrative. 

[00:22:34] Roger Courville, CSP: So When we first started this conversation, you spoke about you're telling, you might be telling your story, but it's not for you. How much, how much do, do you work with people to tell various parts of their story? I mean, cause. A 

[00:22:52] Cathy Fyock, CSP: lot. Yeah. But it's not just their story.

It's what is the moral of the story. and how can it help reade So, and what I found lat to sometimes start with t story. What's the lesson? from this experience? Bec Your story isn't that important unless it leads to some deeper understanding, unless it contains a morsel of truth that helps us understand that truth in some way.

um, clearer way. So it's, um, it's helping people understand that, yeah, it's your story, but it's for your reader. So be sure that as you're telling the story, you're only telling the parts of the story that make it, it come alive and that make your key point. So we may not want to hear about what happened when you, you know, who, when you were born and, you know, um, all of those early stories, it may not make any difference to the reader.

And it's always important to start with that perspective.

[00:24:13] Roger Courville, CSP: I was going to say, I don't mean this as a plug, but I'll just say it as a plug for Kathy by way of a story. A friend of mine is a long time experienced television reporter in the Portland, Oregon market. And he was talking to me about story once over, uh, you know, we're having breakfast and, uh, And he, he, he talked about finding an angle on a given story.

And he told this story about, um, uh, a basketball team and it was last game of the season and their, their towel boy was a. A kid with a handicapable kid and just desperately loved basketball and wanted to play. And, um, ultimately the rest of the story was them putting him in, in the final quarter and the other team letting him go down and shoot a basket and, you know, and so he, the reporters started talking about now how.

How many different ways could we tell this story? It could be from the perspective of the kid that just had this dream moment. It could be from the perspective of the parents who've, you know, struggled to raise a kid with, um, you know, with some disability. Or the other coach and the moral choice that he made to, you know, let, let this kid go score and whatever.

That's my plug for you. Working with somebody like Kathy will help you find an angle on your story as well. At least I'm, I'm putting words. I hope I'm putting words in your mouth. 

[00:25:32] Cathy Fyock, CSP: No, this is great. Yes. Because there's a moral in that story, but it could be, there could be, you know, a dozen or more different morals to that story.

So it's finding out what is the moral, what is the lesson that's important for your reader to understand and know based on the context of your book and the greater, you know, information that you're sharing. 

[00:25:56] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah, I, I would just encourage you to connect with some with Kathy because the power is sometimes that external pair of eyes will find an angle that you never thought of, right?

I've, I maybe I've been telling that story on stage for 10 years and never realized that there was another way to look at that particular story that I've been telling. And so, uh, that's one of the powers of working with somebody. Kathy, for those who might consider something like collaborative writing or, or even ghost writing, what are best practices to ensure that the final product truly reflects their voice and expertise?

[00:26:35] Cathy Fyock, CSP: I tell you, I'm not a fan of ghost writing because it often, well, the feedback that I've gotten from authors who have tried it is it's very hard for the ghost writer to capture your true voice. They can capture facts about you. They can capture knowledge or key points, but they miss some essence of who you are.

Um, and my other belief is, I've already told you, I think that the author learns about themselves, their topic, their, um, and they deepen that expertise. You're missing out on all of that if you're having someone else do the work. That, um, paring down that, um, discern, discernment that comes with actually writing your own book.

[00:27:31] Roger Courville, CSP: Do you ever find that in the process of someone working with you to write their book, reveals gaps in their knowledge. 

[00:27:41] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Um, 

[00:27:43] Roger Courville, CSP: meaning is part of that self discovery going? Well, 

[00:27:46] Cathy Fyock, CSP: let's put it this way. We all have gaps in our knowledge. So that's why it's important to define and advance the scope of the book and what you're going to talk about, because there may be things that are tangential to your topic that you just frankly don't know about.

And that's okay. You don't have to know everything about everything. Uh, and you don't have to know everything even about the topic that you're writing about, but you have to know a lot about the slice of your topic that you're going to be sharing. So I think it's a matter of being clear about the scope of the project as you begin writing your book.

[00:28:28] Roger Courville, CSP: That's fair. Uh, what came to mind, obviously we're just having a conversation here and yes, the, I had my assistant a bunch of years, a lot of years ago I had an assistant and she, she was an English major. So I said, okay, time to pull stuff together for another book. And she started pulling together blog posts and all this kind of stuff.

And the next thing you know, we get this 500 page document and she had gone, gone ahead and categorized it and created a, an initial table of contents. And she says, we need more content here as in I'm doing this, I got 500 pages of content to edit through and she's still saying, I got gaps in, in, in, in having a complete idea relative to the book.

And so I would just, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm an expert in that might a little thing. And, and I got gaps. I have room to grow.

So, 

[00:29:22] Cathy Fyock, CSP: but I do, by the way, I love the idea of, uh, going from blog to book. And in fact, one of my books is titled blog, blog to book, repurposing content to discover the book you've already written. Because if you've written a lot of content pieces, it may be able to, uh, come together and, um, put it into a book so that you're just writing chunks that maybe were missing that you still know about.

But, um, you just haven't written a blog on that yet. 

[00:29:54] Roger Courville, CSP: Tell me more about that. Cause I mean, honestly, that, that sounds like, I remember seeing that on your website. That sounds like something that could really touch down for our audience, corporate marketers, right? Because they're blogging and writing white papers and that kind of thing anyway.

[00:30:09] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Absolutely. Um, I think this is one of the easiest way to write a book is if you've been writing about a specific, um, focus area, um, what you may, what, what I did when I was approached, actually I had several people approach me about doing a blog to book. They said, you know, I've got all this content and I feel like there's a book in there, but I have no idea how to make it happen.

So I said, oh, that's, that's great. Great, I'd love to coach you. And then I thought, oh my gosh, that's a great book topic, . So I ended up doing, writing a blog to book, and it was based on previous blogs I'd already written, but there were some content pieces that needed to be added that were specific to the book.

Uh, things that I still knew about but needed. to, um, to write as fresh pieces of content, which could also then be repurposed as blog posts later. Uh, so, um, I love, I love the idea of the blog to book it's because, especially for those of us who don't like to write or find that it's very challenging, it's an easy way to get your book written, but there's some, there's some things you have to watch out for.

Of course, some posts. time. So, but in the course of a blog, you might want to repeat some things, but in the course of a book you don't want to have a lot of redundancies. You also want to have some kind of parallel structure or some theme that does weave everything together. So those are some things that you'll need to consider.

[00:31:53] Roger Courville, CSP: Have you ever had someone go the other way? Meaning they decided to get their book written by way of blogging? 

[00:32:00] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I've talked with quite a few people who's, uh, they said, Oh, I need to be, you know, marketing my business or getting myself, my thought leadership out there in the market.

And I said, well, let's do it at the same time. Let's be really smart. Let's write chunks of your book that you can repurpose as blog posts. And one of my recent authors just did that very thing. And, um, she, um, Was able to write her book pretty, pretty darn quickly. 

[00:32:30] Roger Courville, CSP: that, that actually is, is what got me blogging for the very first time because I was offered a book deal and, uh, with a publisher and I didn't like the terms of the deal.

I'm a business guy. I can read contracts and I'm like, uh, and plus I'd. because my background was also music, the economics of, of creating content and publishing it in music and, uh, books has a very similar kind of, uh, economic pattern. And so anyway, I've just written this contract going, you know, I'm just not sure that deal makes sense for me.

But it got me off my duff to start blogging. I'm like, okay, I need to, I need a book. Somebody wants some, somebody thinks enough of it to, to, to, you know, want to invest in, in me writing a book. So I ended up, took me about six months to kind of blog out my book and, and finally get something to market.

Let's talk about the promo end of things when you've got your book and one of the things you mentioned earlier is sometimes they're not knowing what to do now. Now that I've got it, besides give a copy to my mom, who probably isn't going to read it. What advice? Well, let me even just start right there.

Rather than asking a specific question, when you think about the post book process, launch continued operating operationalizing of of how you distribute it. Where do you even start with someone? 

[00:33:56] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Sometimes it's just as simple as starting with your current marketing assets. Uh, this is something I have folks think about, you know, if you have a website, if you have, um, um, a newsletter, if you have, um, other marketing assets, how can you integrate your book and let that be a part of what you are now putting out there in the world.

So just going through and doing an audit, I've done a program before about just doing the marketing audit of what assets do I have? How can I include the book? How can I seamlessly put it, um, uh, into my, ongoing efforts. For example, the most basic thing is, uh, as a tag on your email signature, author of the book with a little picture of the book's cover or author of the forthcoming book with a picture of the proposed cover.

So just, you know, thinking about those sorts of things, thinking about your bio, your introduction, your, um, uh, all of those different assets. 

[00:35:08] Roger Courville, CSP: Uh, immediately prior to being on with you, I, I interviewed a fellow speaker, a friend of ours, Patrick Donatio, and his LinkedIn profile picture is a picture of him holding his book.

There you go. 

[00:35:21] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Perfect. Perfect. I love it. Yeah. He's, he's practicing what I preach. So I love that. So yes, having those things on all of your social media posts, having it on your profile. Um, very important. A 

[00:35:38] Roger Courville, CSP: book launch can be a really intensive activity. Is that a place you go? Do you, how much weight do you put on what might be traditionally termed a launch in, in the publishing industry?

[00:35:54] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Um, I, I believe that every author should have a launch. I don't think it's one event. I think it is a series of events over 12 months. And there are a series of events that you should plan. For example, my most recent book, uh, was just made into an audio book. very much. And so it's an opportunity, even though the book came out almost a year ago, it's an opportunity for me to revisit all of the same things I did before and now promote the fact that I have this audio book.

So, um, it's thinking about the series of events. series of, of learning opportunities, whether they be webinars or masterclasses or presentations or parties or events. Um, those are all things that can be really helpful and sometimes it's having a book and a new book is a great excuse to have an event and it allows you to invite your friends, your colleagues, for them to invite their friends to, uh, learn more about this new thing that you've created in the world.

So it can be, uh, because I love, I love any kind of gatherings. I love community events. I love parties. And, uh, this is a, an excuse to get my friends together and, uh, celebrate.

[00:37:25] Roger Courville, CSP: I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I really appreciate the idea that you think about it as a process or an ongoing process. Activity. It might start with the launch as in, okay, it's officially available today. Just mentioned, uh, a precipitating or inciting event down the road, which was the release of the audio book.

Are there other precipitating events or inciting events that give you other opportunities to promo or create, create visibility? 

[00:37:52] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Absolutely. Um, you can even do, um, a staggered launch with your paperback and your ebook, and then the audio book. Um, you, some of my authors are creating a workbook. that accompanies their book.

So all of those things can help, um, because it's an excuse to go out there in the market and say, Hey, we've got something new, a new product to help you and to solve your problem. Um, the other thing is some of my authors have started, um, doing promotions around the anniversary of their book or the birthday of their book, whatever you call it.

choose to call it. But thinking about that, it's been out a year. Here's what I've learned. Here's, here's the new things. Uh, here's the things I've heard from readers. Here's the things I've heard from clients. And it's, uh, it's another reason to go to the marketplace and share some good news. 

[00:38:52] Roger Courville, CSP: I've seen some folks be creative with combining some of those elements that you just talked about, like they give away.

A PDF of the workbook because they know that you'll probably then buy the book , right? Or right, or, or vice versa. Uh, any other creative strategies that you've seen with how people have. 

[00:39:17] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Yeah, thinking about companion products and services can all be ways to, um, to piggyback on the excitement of your book.

That's still themed in with your content. That's still, um, congruent with all of that. But yet, Taking it to a new level. Um, so yes, um, thinking about all of those opportunities. 

[00:39:43] Roger Courville, CSP: You mentioned earlier that you and Lois Kramer like the idea of combining books and speaking. And to me, that is a really natural marriage.

And I would imagine anybody in corporate marketing is, you know, is also speaking. If not, maybe having the potential to grow in that direction, right? You wanna speak at more conferences for your own personal brand or, or whatever. Um, just outta curiosity, what. Top couple ideas. Do you use to, to initiate helping somebody think about combining speaking and, and authorship?

And let me, I'll leave, I'll qualify it this way. To me, there's a difference between being a professional speaker and a professional who speaks, right? Some of us go out and we get paid to go speak at a conference and, or run a workshop and that's okay. And that's, that's how Kathy and I each got our SPs.

But everybody is a professional who speaks and, and, I'm just curious. How do you, are there any creative ways that you marry those two that we haven't talked about so far?

[00:40:48] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Well, the one piece of advice I can give is that if you've created a book, that's probably more than you could ever share in any presentation. So the first big job is to to decide what sliver of your book, uh, granted that your, um, your book is a sliver of the topic, but your presentation is a, even a smaller sliver of your book.

So for example, if you had 10 principles, maybe you just pick the three basic principles of your idea, or maybe you, um, um, you condense, or maybe it's not. I know with one of my books, uh, I had in one of the opening chapters, I had 10 principles, and then I even got into more specific strategies and so forth.

This was for recruiting. Um, but my talk generally was about the principles. And instead where I had 10 in the book, I think I used five. And if it was a keynote, I would do three, depending on how much time I had. So helping executives learn how to take all of that content and deliver it in a way that is memorable and that is, um, um, digestible.

[00:42:16] Roger Courville, CSP: And I will even just add this, cause you just, you know, You just described doing something naturally that I'm just going to use some different language for. I call it what's the no brainer next step. I am not a big fan of the word call to action. Like somehow, you know, I'm just like, You know, if you nail the five principles and there's 10 principles in the book, you don't even have to be a salesperson.

All you gotta do is stand up and really help somebody get excited about what you just said. And then the no brainer next step is, well, of course I'm going to buy the book. Exactly. 

[00:42:46] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Exactly. So some speakers think they have to tell different stories than what are in your book. But really if I know I've bought books from speakers that I love their stories and I love to see them in the book.

So it doesn't have to be. different and distinct, but you will have to make it a different version for sure. 

[00:43:06] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah. I found a couple of things with regard to monetizing that I just loved. Um, unless somebody is going to speak and write for free at some point, monetization comes into the, into the thing. My, my accountant once discovered, I don't know if this was Oregon law or national law with regard to accounting, but she discovered that, um, I didn't have to pay self-employment tax on products sold.

So speaking was a service and I paid an additional 15% self-employment tax. But if I sold books, I didn't have to. So a dollar a revenue was worth more if I sold a book. as opposed to getting that dollar as a speaking fee. So I just write contracts so that, so that, uh, I'd bake in them buying 200 books and lower my speaking fee to make it all come out in the wash and, and it increased my margin a little bit.

[00:43:59] Cathy Fyock, CSP: I love that. I love that. 

[00:44:00] Roger Courville, CSP: Professionally, you should talk to your own account.

Just what percentage of your authors do think about monetizing? 

[00:44:10] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Oh, I would say a hundred percent. 

[00:44:12] Roger Courville, CSP: Okay. 

[00:44:13] Cathy Fyock, CSP: I would say a hundred percent. Most, all of my authors come to me because, yeah, there is the legacy thing and it's cool to write a book, but most of them, it's a business decision and, and, and I would say a hundred percent of the cases, it's a smart business decision.

[00:44:34] Roger Courville, CSP: What, what categories of. Your services have we not talked about 

[00:44:42] Cathy Fyock, CSP: well, I do I do coaching but maybe one Distinction is I do a six month coaching package But then I also offer a VIP coaching package which can be a three day intensive with some pre work and post work and we get it kind of done, uh, over a long weekend.

Uh, I also have group coaching, uh, options. So what I've found is that no two people like to write their book the same way or learn about writing their book the same way. So I have a variety of different services and programs. Also, if anybody is interested in, uh, getting on my mailing list, I do a lot of free events, usually a monthly masterclass on some topic that is relevant to writing, publishing, or promoting your book.

So, those things are, um, Also offered if you're interested in just getting on my mailing list, you can just send an email to me at Kathy at Kathy FIAC. com. 

[00:45:48] Roger Courville, CSP: Believe it or not, I didn't ask that for the sake of promoting. The purpose behind the question, I probably should have prefaced it instead of giving it as the appendix.

But my purpose in asking the question is because I have found this is probably true for all of us in some way that we tend to think about something in a particular way. And you along the way of answering the question just illuminated exactly what I was hoping you would illuminate, which is, which is that, ah, yeah, no six months master class, the six month cohort.

That's not, that's not me. Oh, intensive. That's, that's what makes sense to me relative to time, money, schedule, et cetera. Because, um, I think. There are a lot of different ways to get a book written and it's, it is a particular challenge. Um, for me, for instance, I'll use presentations as a, as a, as an analogy, uh, because of my background, people, uh, have a zillion times asked me, what's your process from going from idea to you got the whole presentation written.

And I'm like, you don't want to know my process. It's, it's a big fat mess. I started a mind mapping tool and then I'd turn and literally go right on a physical whiteboard. And then the sooner or later I'm moving that into an outliner. And, you know, before it ever touches PowerPoint and I'm like, it's a big fat mess, but it works for me in the way that my, my random.

You know, linear, uh, non-linear brain tends to work. Just outta curiosity, do you touch down with process in different ways for different people or, yes. Okay. 

[00:47:28] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Yes. And it kind of depends. Like, I just had a new client this morning. Uh, he's working on his third book with me now. And so it's, it's really fun. But each book has been different, uh, unique.

And he came, he said, I, I've been talking about this topic, and I have. 20 different traits that he had identified for this leadership concept. And so, um, we started talking about it. I said, tell me more about it. So what evolved from that conversation was that the first 10 were the obvious and then the second column were the, Oh, it was never, it's never been articulated, but those are real.

So, uh, we're looking at, uh, a design of the book that probably will be in two major sections and that will also maybe have 20 smaller chapters as opposed to what he's written in the past. So every book sort of takes on a life of its own based on What the author has already learned about the topic, how they have delivered, if they've been speaking about that topic, if they, um, have some insights.

So that comes through the exploration process. I generally give new clients. A worksheet before our first meeting, and I have them do some deep thinking about some of those strategic elements of the book. And in fact, I have a, a workbook even that, uh, I will send to my clients that help them go through some of those exercises as we get clarity on what does the book look like 

[00:49:18] Roger Courville, CSP: as we drive toward wrapping, let's, let's zero in on that corporate marketing executive.

Who I'm going to presume the vast majority of them have never written a book, right? I think that's probably a reasonable gut. 

[00:49:33] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Probably.

[00:49:37] Roger Courville, CSP: If they were to call you, what questions would you love to be asked that they probably aren't, haven't thought about because they've never written a book? 

[00:49:45] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Well, I think one of the basics is, um, how much time does it really take? Um, and what I have learned is that you need at least five hours a week to get it done, to have the momentum.

if you, if you do an hour a week and you're consistent in that, but what I found is there's not enough momentum in that, that that gives you the dopamine hit to say, Oh yeah, I've got this done and I'm ready to move on to the next piece. So there is something about five hours a week at a minimum. Um, sometimes my authors say, I'm not sure if this is, If it has a market.

So we'll, we'll talk sometimes about that. The marketability of a particular idea. Some people come to me and say, I don't know, it's a, I'm right. I want to write something about leadership, but you know, is that just, you know, So redundant in today's world. And I said, only until we've solved leadership problems, is it redundant?

So until then, we're, we're, we're looking for new solutions, new perspectives, new ways. So I do think that, well, I don't expect authors to have a completely new take, but they need to be approaching their topic with some new lens, with some new Perspective that is unique to that person. So we'll usually have a discussion to explore what that is.

And so that we can articulate that in the book. 

[00:51:27] Roger Courville, CSP: If you're still listening, uh, one, thank you. And two, let me encourage you to rewind the audio here and listen to what Kathy just said again. You know, as a past president of National Speakers Association of Oregon, uh, I've had coffee with hundreds of people who sit down and want to go, Oh, well, how do, what do I do?

I want to be a professional speaker. What, you know, where do I even start? And one of the illustrations that I would often use is, does the world need another sales trainer? Is there always room to be successful with you being a sales person to sales trainer? The answer is yes, for exactly what Kathy just said, you have an angle, you have a perspective, you have something that somebody like Kathy can help you draw out.

That is an angle that gives you your own story. And, you know, of course they can find, go to Amazon and find 500 books on sales. How to sell, but you've got something unique because you're unique and, um, with that, I hope you call Kathy at some point in time, kathyfioc. com Kathy with a C F Y O C K. com.

Kathy thank you so much for spending a little time with us today. 

[00:52:43] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Oh, well, thank you. 

[00:52:44] Roger Courville, CSP: Besides your website, is there any place that you prefer to connect? 

[00:52:49] Cathy Fyock, CSP: Just email is great. Uh, anybody who'd like to schedule a complimentary strategy session and just talk about their idea and to see if a book is right for them.

I'm happy to have an exploratory conversation. Uh, just send me an email at Kathy at Kathy Fyoff. com. 

[00:53:08] Roger Courville, CSP: Well, with that, thank you again to Kathy. And thank you again to our sponsor today, virtualvenues. com, where you can instantly scale your virtual and hybrid event production team. We'll catch you on the next episode of thought leader conversations.

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